What made Foreman hit like a truck?

[db03892]

Foreman had a unique punching style. Unlike to other boxers, George planted his feet and punched with mostly his arms and upper body; yet was one of the greatest punchers.
How does he get his power in punches? Is it natural or does he do something particular?

 

[Vital]

Foreman did have natural power and his hands and fists were exceptionally huge. He was very slow and lacked technique though. He may have had more blunt force behind his punches but he didn't have the sharp, precision power that a Mike Tyson had. I guess it would be like comparing getting hit by a baseball bat or a small tree trunk lol. One is fast and devastating while the other is slow but can demolish you. If I was a fighter with a choice to face either man, I'd rather face Foreman myself if both men were in their prime. Tyson had a way of shattering bones, knocking out teeth and so on. That baseball bat came hard and fast. Foreman's tree trunks were a lot slower and had more brunt force so it would KO you but not do as much damage in the long run. It's kind of like weight distribution, the wider you can spread it out the more you can handle, my wife can stand my back with shoes on, if she puts high heels on it will be like a knife and stab me. Same amount of weight, just smaller point of impact. Foreman's fists were probably twice the size of Mike Tyson's.

Anyway, I have met a few men like Foreman in my life, just natural corn fed giants that could lift things that normal men could not lift and these were not guys that ever worked out or anything. They just worked all of their life and were like bears with super human strength.

 

[Straightcross]

He did some crazy training like carrying cows,pulling cars and chopping wood.

Also he has the best genetics a heavyweight boxer could have

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

I think there might be a threshold where, once you cross, punching power can be developed much faster. If you punch with no oomph the impact might not register clearly with your own nervous system. If you don't know what snap and follow-through feel like on impact then you'll have a hard time making subconscious adjustments to your "punch instructions packet". A punch with all the mustard requires such precision timing of body parts that it can't be intellectually learned, all the parts have to be dialed in through experience.

If you think about how hard it would be to develop a "punch packet" it's stupid complex. But your jobs only done if you were standing right in front of a heavy bag in your normal basic stance. To actually hit another human being you would have to guess the location, speed, direction of the target, guess the current state of every part of your body, and then guess the correct packet to send out with at least some completely new adjustments.

 

[SummerStriker]

Could you post a video. Not that I'm trying to be any more contrary than usual, but I'm pretty sure he put his hips into everything.

 

[PivotPunch]

Well obviously it's speed x weight.

But inn reality it obviously isn#t that simple because the wight you can put in a punch isn't only depandant on your actual body weight but on your technique and for a little part your speed also depends on your technique.

So theoretically just having a lot of fast twitch muscles is the thing but also having long levers.

But I do disagree to those that say strength is completely unimportant because while i doesnt affect the speed your hands travel with at the moment of impact your body needs to be firm if your arms are to weak or your legs then the force of the impact doesn't get delivered to 100% at your opponents body but your body absorbs some of it.

Which is also partly technique even elite guys like bradley or even mayweather sometimes slap their punches and don#t turn their elbows over which means a lot of force get lost.

I also think one big thing that happens is that people mix up overall speed when moving, putting combos together and actual handspeed.

The former is also a result of technique and whether you are willing to sit down less on your punches to put them together quicker like even Pacquiao sometimes does.

But how many big punchers had really slow handspeed? again speed x mass = I

Tyson was really fast with his hands (and overall), Rocky Marciano despite being described slow and whatever had really fast hands, a young Foreman had decent handspeed at least, Wladimir Klitschko has really quick hands, canelo has quick hands for a big guy and so on.
Punchers usually also have quick hands.

Old Foreman had more mass than young foreman and still had technique but he was slower even with his hands and had even more awkward punching technique so in the end he wasnt quite the same puncher but still a big puncher.



I dont know if you are allowed to post links here to other forums even if they are small but google "I sparred Foreman" and the first result should be a forum of with a post of someone who claims to have sparred a few big names HWs.

he sparred also Foreman at the end of the 90s so like the very oldest version and he said his punches were really HEAVY because as I said Foreman lost some speed but still had mass in his punches because of technique and his weight.

Also i find it kinda interesting that the guy says that Wlad has the most terrifying punches and was the only guy to ko him but it's very believeable if you watch Wlad's more aggressive performances.

I suggest anyone to google it because it's an interesting read if you believe that guy which Ill just do

 

[SkribbLe]

It's natural heavy hands. not everybody could punch hard, he just had that talent and gift.

 

[OoopsaDaisey]

I love chopping wood. I'd do it two or three times a week for exercise if I could. Unfortunately, I live in the suburbs.

I can't recall who said it--maybe Jack Dempsey--but chopping wood is so much better as an exercise than swinging a hammer at a tire. Just the fact that you can look at a massive pile of split logs after you're finished that wasn't there before is a major advantage. It's mental as well as physical exercise. A very stripped down version of making something with your hands while becoming stronger. I always find those things to be easier to fixate myself on than ones that just seem like simple exercise. I imagine smithing and other swinging work is similar.

It's better exercise because of you ending up with a pile of wood halves afterwards? That's not a thing. That's like saying if Power Cleans produced a source of fuel they'd be even more efficient at building explosive strength than they currently are.

Frankly, I don't think either way is a more effective exercise than any other method of conditioning. They're just a tool to help get people into shape, nothing romantic about it. I'd argue the biggest benefit is helping to teach younger kids how to properly transfer their weight to produce a linked, proper movement.

...Perhaps that's why there would be a benefit to chopping wood instead of sledging? You can always hit the tire with a poorly linked strike with a sledge, you won't chop the wood with poor technique with an axe.

 

[$uperman]

Years ago there was a boxing site where you could chat with pro boxers and ask them questions. I asked Evander Holyfield who of his opponents hits the hardest. He said George Foreman.

So an " old " George Foreman hits harder than a young Mike Tyson, because Evander Holyfield has fought them both.

Then I emailed George Foreman website and asked him what the best way is to improving punching power and he said chopping wood.

I think George Foreman hits so hard, because of his natural power and of course his boxing training and his strenght/condition training.

 

[Steve08]

Very big, physically heavy hands for one thing. He knew how to walk people into punches as well.

 

[Blackened]

Years ago there was a boxing site where you could chat with pro boxers and ask them questions. I asked Evander Holyfield who of his opponents hits the hardest. He said George Foreman.

So an " old " George Foreman hits harder than a young Mike Tyson, because Evander Holyfield has fought them both.

Then I emailed George Foreman website and asked him what the best way is to improving punching power and he said chopping wood.

I think George Foreman hits so hard, because of his natural power and of course his boxing training and his strenght/condition training.

Friend of mine (Puerto Rican Boxer) always talked about how, "you gotta do pushups. Back exercises" yada yada yada. "But not George Foreman. George Foreman choppeddda woooood."

I'd say that's it. Chop a lot of wood.

 

[shpboris]

A punch with all the mustard requires such precision timing of body parts that it can't be intellectually learned, all the parts have to be dialed in through experience.

Interesting way to think about that...

I wonder if there are examples of fighters who technically throw correct punches + they are fast and put their weight into the punch and still they are not able to generate power.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Now if the key to increase punch power is chopping wood..........goddamn i'm gonna make a mince out of my garden. Fuck trees, i need my hands of stone.

 

[shpboris]

I dont know if you are allowed to post links here to other forums even if they are small but google "I sparred Foreman" and the first result should be a forum of with a post of someone who claims to have sparred a few big names HWs.

Good read - thanks ! ))
Here is the direct link http://a-j-s-boom-boom-room.2299399.n4.nabble.com/I-sparred-with-Evander-Holyfield-George-Foreman-Lennox-Lewis-David-Tua-and-others-td4090601.html

 

[KounterPunch]

It's natural heavy hands. not everybody could punch hard, he just had that talent and gift.

^ this.

 

[OoopsaDaisey]

Very big, physically heavy hands for one thing. He knew how to walk people into punches as well.

I hardly believe his hands being physically heavy is relevant to this discussion, lol.

 

[KounterPunch]

Could you post a video. Not that I'm trying to be any more contrary than usual, but I'm pretty sure he put his hips into everything.

YouTube it , lazy man.
Nah , he didn't put as much hip into it like a Julian Jackson or a Mike Tyson .....or even the average boxer.

 

[PivotPunch]

I hardly believe his hands being physically heavy is relevant to this discussion, lol.

I wonder about that tbf.

Big hands in themselves are bad because the bigger the area (fist) the more the force the spreads so that's a disadvantage but then again most of the time people with bigger hands should have (literally) heavier hands so it should add mass to the punch.

I really wonder if it matters at all and if it does how much. Maybe long thing hands are bad because the force gets spread but big wide and literally heavy (muscular) hands add force?

But then again there have always been punchers with long levers, short levers, big ones, smaller ones and some with smaller hands and wrists and some with big hands and wrists

 

[KounterPunch]

Years ago there was a boxing site where you could chat with pro boxers and ask them questions. I asked Evander Holyfield who of his opponents hits the hardest. He said George Foreman.

So an " old " George Foreman hits harder than a young Mike Tyson, because Evander Holyfield has fought them both.

Then I emailed George Foreman website and asked him what the best way is to improving punching power and he said chopping wood.

I think George Foreman hits so hard, because of his natural power and of course his boxing training and his strenght/condition training.

When ppl ask me how hard George Foreman hit , I just say that he hit so hard that when he was 50 years old he one punch KOed the heavyweight champion of the world.
That usually ends the discussion.

 

[Flex Rickard]

I wonder about that tbf.

Big hands in themselves are bad because the bigger the area (fist) the more the force the spreads so that's a disadvantage but then again most of the time people with bigger hands should have (literally) heavier hands so it should add mass to the punch.

I really wonder if it matters at all and if it does how much. Maybe long thing hands are bad because the force gets spread but big wide and literally heavy (muscular) hands add force?

But then again there have always been punchers with long levers, short levers, big ones, smaller ones and some with smaller hands and wrists and some with big hands and wrists

The thing is that the fist is not actually penetrating the target. If the goal was to split the skull then bigger hands would be a disadvantage, widening the area of impact as you said. BUT if the what matters is total force relayed to the head than the bigger and more durable the hand, the more force it can relay without shattering.

I personally have the theory that hand size plays an underrated role in "natural" punching power. Having more durable hands I think has an effect on how/what you train (i.e. how much time you spend on the heavy bag, how punches are thrown sparring/on the mitts, etc) which, over thousands of hours, adds up to serious differences in the physical and neurological adaptations that come from punching. Jack Dempsey and Sonny Liston are two guys who come to mind that had friggin HUGE hands.

 

[Phlog]

Sayin its natural or a gift means ZERO. Absolutely nothing. All things are natural or a gift, depending on your position, that is the nature of the universe.

Chopping wood seems like a red herring although it could be related to s&c which builds strength through compound motions, not sport specific ones, leeding to faster delivery of the sport motions.

I know little, just speculating.

 

[PivotPunch]

The thing is that the fist is not actually penetrating the target. If the goal was to split the skull then bigger hands would be a disadvantage, widening the area of impact as you said. BUT if the what matters is total force relayed to the head than the bigger and more durable the hand, the more force it can relay without shattering.

I personally have the theory that hand size plays an underrated role in "natural" punching power. Having more durable hands I think has an effect on how/what you train (i.e. how much time you spend on the heavy bag, how punches are thrown sparring/on the mitts, etc) which, over thousands of hours, adds up to serious differences in the physical and neurological adaptations that come from punching. Jack Dempsey and Sonny Liston are two guys who come to mind that had friggin HUGE hands.

yeah but bigger hands dont necessarily mean that they are more durable maybe it's more likely though I don't know

 

[slip slip hook]

Punchers are born not made?

The never ending argument.

IMO punchers are born. Foreman hit hard cause when he was born Zeus came down from Olympus and dropped a deuce on his arms blessing him with heavy hands.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

yeah but bigger hands dont necessarily mean that they are more durable maybe it's more likely though I don't know

Bigger hands = bigger hand frame = bigger, thicker bones


Small dainty hands are never as big-boned as large hands


Bigger people are more durable than smaller people, too.

 

[Sinister]

YouTube it , lazy man.
Nah , he didn't put as much hip into it like a Julian Jackson or a Mike Tyson .....or even the average boxer.

lolwut?

Sayin its natural or a gift means ZERO. Absolutely nothing. All things are natural or a gift, depending on your position, that is the nature of the universe.

Chopping wood seems like a red herring although it could be related to s&c which builds strength through compound motions, not sport specific ones, leeding to far delivery of the sport motions.

I know little, just speculating.

You'd be surprised how similar chopping wood (Foreman) and say, swinging a sledge-hammer (Liston), when done with specific form, are to punching. I'll give you a hint, it centers around hip rotation, and how the weight moves.

 

[PivotPunch]

Bigger hands = bigger hand frame = bigger, thicker bones


Small dainty hands are never as big-boned as large hands


Bigger people are more durable than smaller people, too.

a bigger hand isn't automatically a bigger frame especially people with long but thin hands are often lanky in built.

Pretty sure Thomas Heanrs had bigger hands than Tyson

tyson, Mosley, and De al hoya all with the same hand size

I am about 5'10 and 150lbs yet my hands are seemingly bigger than those of some who are 6ft and naturally heavier than me

Also hand injuries can happen for various reasons and without being a doctor I'll just assume that bone density is a bigger factor than bone thickness

and especially the thing that bigger people are more durable is very arguable and I'll even claim it's the oppsoite even if you just look at fighters in the heavier weight classes and especially at HW they get injured more often

taller people are also more likely to have back and joint issues and the strength to weight ratio is on average at it's highest at a pretty low weight I think something like 150lbs so people around that weight should be less likely to get injured

 

[Negative Zero]

lolwut?



You'd be surprised how similar chopping wood (Foreman) and say, swinging a sledge-hammer (Liston), when done with specific form, are to punching. I'll give you a hint, it centers around hip rotation, and how the weight moves.

What's your opinion? We know how to increase power but why did he have the most?

 

[PivotPunch]

ok that's SRL wrong picture but basically the same SRL was also a 5'9 WW

 

[KounterPunch]

lolwut?
.

Ah , the old "Who are you going to believe ......me or your lying eyes ?"

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

a bigger hand isn't automatically a bigger frame especially people with long but thin hands are often lanky in built.

Pretty sure Thomas Heanrs had bigger hands than Tyson

tyson, Mosley, and De al hoya all with the same hand size

I am about 5'10 and 150lbs yet my hands are seemingly bigger than those of some who are 6ft and naturally heavier than me

Also hand injuries can happen for various reasons and without being a doctor I'll just assume that bone density is a bigger factor than bone thickness

and especially the thing that bigger people are more durable is very arguable and I'll even claim it's the oppsoite even if you just look at fighters in the heavier weight classes and especially at HW they get injured more often

taller people are also more likely to have back and joint issues and the strength to weight ratio is on average at it's highest at a pretty low weight I think something like 150lbs so people around that weight should be less likely to get injured

All things being equal, the larger you scale an animal or object (like a steel bar) without changing its density, it becomes more and more durable (able to take punishment). We are talking about the same amount of force-- constant, not relative to size

HWs only get hurt more because they get hit by other HW's.

A LW getting hit clean by another LW will take more damage than a Heavy getting hit by that same LW because he has more mass to distribute the force. Similarly, a larger hand has more material (bone mass) in its frame to distribute and resist force than a smaller scaled hand. If you are arguing that large hands generally contain the same strength and mass of bone, ligaments, and cartilage as smaller hands, I will have to disagree.

We already know that a fighter with a thicker skull takes better punishment when getting punched to the head than one with a relatively thin skull. Bone thickness, not general density is the main factor.

Yes there are many other factors that can play in, but we are eliminating those other factors (or equalizing them to both sides) for the sake of illustration.

 

[SkribbLe]

Sayin its natural or a gift means ZERO. Absolutely nothing. All things are natural or a gift, depending on your position, that is the nature of the universe.

Chopping wood seems like a red herring although it could be related to s&c which builds strength through compound motions, not sport specific ones, leeding to faster delivery of the sport motions.

I know little, just speculating.

So you mean to tell me, that Tyson didn't have a gift or natural power? having natural ability means a lot. and it's something not everybody has. You say having natural ability means "zero". wich is stupid. You also say all fighters are gifted. You don't know shit about boxing.

 

[PivotPunch]

All things being equal, the larger you scale an animal or object (like a steel bar) without changing its density, it becomes more and more durable (able to take punishment). We are talking about the same amount of force-- constant, not relative to size

HWs only get hurt more because they get hit by other HW's.

A LW getting hit clean by another LW will take more damage than a Heavy getting hit by that same LW because he has more mass to distribute the force. Similarly, a larger hand has more material (bone mass) in its frame to distribute and resist force than a smaller scaled hand. If you are arguing that large hands generally contain the same strength and mass of bone, ligaments, and cartilage as smaller hands, I will have to disagree.

We already know that a fighter with a thicker skull takes better punishment when getting punched to the head than one with a relatively thin skull. Bone thickness, not general density is the main factor.

Yes there are many other factors that can play in, but we are eliminating those other factors (or equalizing them to both sides) for the sake of illustration.

you can't just scale animals up because we are talking about entirely different species a mouse isnt a human and a human isn't an elephant.

really tall people have a higher risk of getting back injuries and stuff like that that

Yes a LW will get damaged more if he gets hit by a HW but that are external forces if a LW moves and a HW moves then the HW is more likely to get injured because the strength of the tendons and everything doesn't increase proportionally to the size in the end it's the same tendons as those of a smaller human even if they might be slightly bigger

With breaking the hands it'smost certainly bone denisty a punch to the head is different because it#s the force the brain receives that matters but if we are talking about bones themselves then it's about bone density mostly.
What's harder tp damage a thick piece of soft wood or a slightly thinner piece of hard wood?

nd again the pic of Tyson with OLDh and Leonard speaks a thousand words. According to your logic OLDH is more durable and has a bigger frame than tyson he has slightly bigger hands, slightly wider shoulders, appears slightly taller with longer arms but I highly doubt any version of OLDH survives more than 2 rounds of the damage an old tyson took from Lewis nor does he hit harder than tyson

 

[SummerStriker]

Ah , the old "Who are you going to believe ......me or your lying eyes ?"

I just skipped to the 25 minute mark. He is either stepping forward or turning into every hit deeply.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

you can't just scale animals up because we are talking about entirely different species a mouse isnt a human and a human isn't an elephant.

I'm talking about the same animal. Say a litter of mice, one of them will be the runt of the litter and one may grow larger than all the rest. This is not unusual for this to happen. The bigger one is stronger and can withstand greater physical stresses. Same family and general traits-- the bigger one is stronger and more durable

really tall people have a higher risk of getting back injuries and stuff like that that

You're talking about people with frames that are taller than their systems were made to handle, due to the effect of gravity on their systems, and that's not what we're talking about really.

But if a larger (but not disablingly tall) person was asked to carry a heavy box up the stairs compared to a really small person of the same scaled frame, the smaller weaker person is more likely to throw out his back. Given it's the same box

Yes a LW will get damaged more if he gets hit by a HW but that are external forces if a LW moves and a HW moves then the HW is more likely to get injured because the strength of the tendons and everything doesn't increase proportionally to the size in the end it's the same tendons as those of a smaller human even if they might be slightly bigger

With breaking the hands it'smost certainly bone denisty a punch to the head is different because it#s the force the brain receives that matters but if we are talking about bones themselves then it's about bone density mostly.
What's harder tp damage a thick piece of soft wood or a slightly thinner piece of hard wood?

Well for bones, the relative density isn't all that different from one to another unless you have a bone disease. It's the thickness. A little thickness = a lot more strength and sturdiness than a little density. When medical scans are done, they check the thickness. The only time they are concerned with the density is in cases of disease.

We're talking about bones, not wood, they are very different.

nd again the pic of Tyson with OLDh and Leonard speaks a thousand words. According to your logic OLDH is more durable and has a bigger frame than tyson he has slightly bigger hands, slightly wider shoulders, appears slightly taller with longer arms but I highly doubt any version of OLDH survives more than 2 rounds of the damage an old tyson took from Lewis nor does he hit harder than tyson

Tyson's bones are probably a lot thicker than DLH's, anyway. Their frames may LOOK approximately similar in that photo, but we're not talking about relative looks from a distorted picture. DLH is not bigger or thicker than Tyson, but he IS a lot closer to the camera. So that's a bad example. Also who's to say DLH's hands were more injury prone than Tyson's? Because that's what we are actually talking about

Tyson naturally also had a lot more muscle and strength and power to his frame than DLH, you can't pretend those aren't factors. I can't believe you think DLH's bones are/were naturally as thick as Tyson's. That is so wrong

 

[Sinister]

What's your opinion? We know how to increase power but why did he have the most?

The most what? Foreman had A LOT of power. But so did a thousand other guys in the History of Boxing.

Ah , the old "Who are you going to believe ......me or your lying eyes ?"

My eyes arent the ones lying if you're insinuating Foreman didnt put his hips into his punches.

 

[Steve08]

I hardly believe his hands being physically heavy is relevant to this discussion, lol.

Explain.

 

[Negative Zero]

If there is a such thing as "natural power" or a boxer having the "gift of power" is that the boxer having the natural talent of using his body correctly to generate power, or the boxer just being able to generate more power with the same effort, technique, and physical strength of other fighters? That may be the real question. It could even be both, in the case of the most powerful fighters of all time like George Foreman.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

I hardly believe his hands being physically heavy is relevant to this discussion, lol.

Do you even know how to physics bro?

 

[SummerStriker]

the boxer just being able to generate more power with the same effort, technique, and physical strength of other fighters? That may be the real question.

Lever 'A' transmitted more force than Lever 'B' despite being the same length and pulled the same distance over the same amount of time.

That is a mystery.

 

[PivotPunch]

I'm talking about the same animal. Say a litter of mice, one of them will be the runt of the litter and one may grow larger than all the rest. This is not unusual for this to happen. The bigger one is stronger and can withstand greater physical stresses. Same family and general traits-- the bigger one is stronger and more durable



You're talking about people with frames that are taller than their systems were made to handle, due to the effect of gravity on their systems, and that's not what we're talking about really.

But if a larger (but not disablingly tall) person was asked to carry a heavy box up the stairs compared to a really small person of the same scaled frame, the smaller weaker person is more likely to throw out his back. Given it's the same box



Well for bones, the relative density isn't all that different from one to another unless you have a bone disease. It's the thickness. A little thickness = a lot more strength and sturdiness than a little density. When medical scans are done, they check the thickness. The only time they are concerned with the density is in cases of disease.

We're talking about bones, not wood, they are very different.



Tyson's bones are probably a lot thicker than DLH's, anyway. Their frames may LOOK approximately similar in that photo, but we're not talking about relative looks from a distorted picture. DLH is not bigger or thicker than Tyson, but he IS a lot closer to the camera. So that's a bad example. Also who's to say DLH's hands were more injury prone than Tyson's? Because that's what we are actually talking about

Tyson naturally also had a lot more muscle and strength and power to his frame than DLH, you can't pretend those aren't factors. I can't believe you think DLH's bones are/were naturally as thick as Tyson's. That is so wrong

Ok I'll gove you that but I still dont see how tyson had that much bigger hands than OLDH or even SRL so how good of an indicator is hand size really?