Social What is "Toxic Masculinity"? (Study shows feminists prefer "benevolent sexists")

[hillelslovak87]

More veggies with soy burgers.....I heard that really creates the hypertrophy. Just ask the left!

You're the one who worships a filthy vegan hippie...

 

[Amerikuracana]

The immature, rude behavior that women are attracted to irl, that real grown-up men have always hated; which women pretend to hate on social media when they aren't blowing the guy they met that impressed them with immature, toxic masculinity.

 

[Prutfis]

 

[Amerikuracana]

Toxic masculinity goes away more when men have more of a say in breeding and marriage. With women's breeding wishes out to the forefront ahead of "what's best for society," we will evolve more anti-social behavior from men, and what I would consider toxic behavior.

 

[luckyshot]

You changed the title TS, but I would say toxic masculinity is when someone feels he has to behave a certain way because it is manly-- or that he cannot behave some other way because it is unmanly.

Basically, anything is toxic if it stifles free and genuine expression.

 

[Psychedelic]

It's a term coined by hypocritical cunts, embraced by lesser males, proliferated by a powerful elite with a clear agenda.

 

[2DUM2TAP]

Just about every character trait I can think of has its pros and cons. They have a time and place. This is why I dont agree with the concept of toxic masculinity.

 

[panamaican]

You changed the title TS, but I would say toxic masculinity is when someone feels he has to behave a certain way because it is manly-- or that he cannot behave some other way because it is unmanly.

Basically, anything is toxic if it stifles free and genuine expression.

I changed it. There were 3 separate threads on this subject, which are now merged. The Gillette one is still separate because it's as much about corporate behavior as it is about toxic masculinity.

 

[panamaican]

You changed the title TS, but I would say toxic masculinity is when someone feels he has to behave a certain way because it is manly-- or that he cannot behave some other way because it is unmanly.

Basically, anything is toxic if it stifles free and genuine expression.

I agree with some of that but I see it more in terms of extremes. That within a certain range, certain prototypical male behaviors are just fine. Once you get outside of the range, they become detrimental to society, ie. toxic. I also think people are emotionally responding to the word "toxic" without thinking through the subject.

For anyone reading - guys are sexual creatures who pursue their objects of interest because that's just how our minds and bodies are connected. That a prototypical normal male behavior. Nothing wrong with it. But if a guy was drugging his partners or outright raping or coercing them into sex then a normal behavior has moved into toxic range.

Guys like to compete with each other. It's normal, it's testosterone, etc. That's why we have sports and things like that. But if a guy turned every exchange into a fight or an argument then a normal behavior has moved into a toxic range.

Those are broad easily delineated behaviors. Where the conversation is nationally is on more subtle nuances. The types of things that are harder to tease out but just as detrimental to the man and to society. I've written posts in the past about the negative effects of hypermasculinity in single mom households. Usually when some male child feels that they need to be the "man of the house" without having a real model of what manhood is so they adopt the stylizations that they see on tv or hear in music.

Those stylizations aren't masculinity. They are the exaggerations of male traits and those exaggerations might work in the carefully scripted entertainment model they're presented in. But they don't work in the real world without real consequences.

I think things like that are very relevant to our society. You would think that believers in traditional values would recognize the problem with supplanting positive male behavior with a cartooned version of it.

 

[Wet Blanket]

You're the one who worships a filthy vegan hippie...

Hey man... I'm right here.

 

[Supereem]

What does this mean for Sherdogs resident SJW types? Eternal virgins?

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Back in my day we called toxic Masculinity being a douchebag

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I agree with some of that but I see it more in terms of extremes. That within a certain range, certain prototypical male behaviors are just fine. Once you get outside of the range, they become detrimental to society, ie. toxic. I also think people are emotionally responding to the word "toxic" without thinking through the subject.

The use of the word "toxic" is the heart of the problem. Feminism is propped up with fake intellectualism based on falsehoods and you get clear view of it with the terms used. The word Toxic is too ambiguous to be used in this way and is used to deliberately cause this kind of shit. It is also why we have bullshit like there is more than 2 genders, because the word is used incorrectly to cause chaos(how you dress does not effect your gender)...almost every major issue brought about by feminism over the last near 20 years has all been like this.

By not defining terms, by leaving it open, we end up with chaos because its being spewed out for just about anything that the individual saying it does not like...think about it, its a term that has been used since the 1990s, and can anyone name what it entails? Is there a list someplace? Its been left open and undefined for a reason...im sure the fact that a high school teacher inventing it had nothing to do with it but at least she tried to give it a better name, hegemonic masculinity...modern feminists have no clue what hegemonic means though.

 

[panamaican]

The use of the word "toxic" is the heart of the problem. Feminism is propped up with fake intellectualism based on falsehoods and you get clear view of it with the terms used. The word Toxic is too ambiguous to be used in this way and is used to deliberately cause this kind of shit. It is also why we have bullshit like there is more than 2 genders, because the word is used incorrectly to cause chaos(how you dress does not effect your gender)...almost every major issue brought about by feminism over the last near 20 years has all been like this.

By not defining terms, by leaving it open, we end up with chaos because its being spewed out for just about anything that the individual saying it does not like...think about it, its a term that has been used since the 1990s, and can anyone name what it entails? Is there a list someplace? Its been left open and undefined for a reason...im sure the fact that a high school teacher inventing it had nothing to do with it but at least she tried to give it a better name, hegemonic masculinity...modern feminists have no clue what hegemonic means though.

Another example of the problem I referenced in another post. A thread about masculinity where people can't discuss general male behavior without someone referencing feminism (which is not femininity).

Masculinity is it's own thing. It's not defined by its parallels or its contrasts to feminism.

When I see a discussion about masculinity and someone says "...feminism...", I assume I'm talking to someone who hasn't thought through masculinity and society as it relates to men. They've only ever thought about masculinity as it relates to women.

 

[PapaBherd]

Do guys really not understand the difference between positive and negative male behavior?

Being Assertive is positive male behavior. Being belligerent isn't.
Approaching a potential sexual partner respectfully is positive male behavior. Being a pushy, entitled, sexual creep isn't.
Financially providing for your family is positive male behavior. Using money as a tool to reward/punish your family isn't.

I realize the degrees of separation can be difficult but I've always thought this was generally agreed upon knowledge. Given how many threads there are on masculinity out there, perhaps we really do have a problem. A lot of guys seem to not know the difference between posiitve and negative versions of an action. Or feel compelled to defend negative male behavior for reasons that have nothing to do with whether or not the behavior is good or bad.

It probably has a lot to do with viewing things in absolutes. It makes things much easier - theoretically.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Another example of the problem I referenced in another post. A thread about masculinity where people can't discuss general male behavior without someone referencing feminism (which is not femininity).

Masculinity is it's own thing. It's not defined by its parallels or its contrasts to feminism.

When I see a discussion about masculinity and someone says "...feminism...", I assume I'm talking to someone who hasn't thought through masculinity and society as it relates to men. They've only ever thought about masculinity as it relates to women.

Do you even know who I an talking about when I said "the fact that a high school teacher inventing it had nothing to do with it"?...clearly not if you dont think feminism has anything to do with it...and I even gave you the information you need to find out who it was to educate yourself "hegemonic masculinity". But this isnt about educating anyone, its about spreading more bullshit which is why you addressed NOTHING I said. Not a single thing other than "OMG THE WORD FEMINISM WAS THERE!".

A Feminist invented the idea and Feminism has been spreading it.

But I do thank you for the personal attack and character assassination since you could not address the actual statement due to your lack of actual knowledge on the subject.

 

[panamaican]

Do you even know who I an talking about when I said "the fact that a high school teacher inventing it had nothing to do with it"?...clearly not if you dont think feminism has anything to do with it...and I even gave you the information you need to find out who it was to educate yourself "hegemonic masculinity". But this isnt about educating anyone, its about spreading more bullshit which is why you addressed NOTHING I said. Not a single thing other than "OMG THE WORD FEMINISM WAS THERE!".

A Feminist invented the idea and Feminism has been spreading it.

But I do thank you for the personal attack and character assassination since you could not address the actual statement due to your lack of actual knowledge on the subject.

Correct, I addressed nothing you wrote because it had nothing to do with my post. I wrote multiple paragraphs on masculinity and you only responded to a short section about the word "toxic". Which is exactly the point I made - people responding to the word "toxic" but not spending time thinking about the actual subject matter itself. You can discuss the pros and cons of using the word "toxic" in relation to the use of the word "masculinity" with someone else. I'd rather discuss actual appropriate and inappropriate behavior.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Correct, I addressed nothing you wrote because it had nothing to do with my post. I wrote multiple paragraphs on masculinity and you only responded to a short section about the word "toxic". Which is exactly the point I made - people responding to the word "toxic" but not spending time thinking about the actual subject matter itself. You can discuss the pros and cons of using the word "toxic" in relation to the use of the word "masculinity" with someone else. I'd rather discuss actual appropriate and inappropriate behavior.

Or, I only quoted and replied about the word toxic because THAT was the part I wanted to talk about...and it was important.

You completely ignored all my points and actually became "toxic" yourself in how you did it because there are merits to the points I made. And also "eople responding to the word "toxic" but not spending time thinking about the actual subject matter itself" is IMPOSSIBLE if the person replying about the word is giving deep detailed refutes...

The word TOXIC is what is causing it and I gave the reasons why as a counter point to YOUR reasons why its a problem. To dismiss it outright and make comments like you did, is to become what you yourself are talking about. Congrats.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

And most people who have 5 kids from 3 different women are deadbeat losers and rarely men who demand respect in their communities.

do you feel the same way about women who have multiple children with different men?

 

[panamaican]

Or, I only quoted and replied about the word toxic because THAT was the part I wanted to talk about...and it was important.

You completely ignored all my points and actually became "toxic" yourself in how you did it because there are merits to the points I made. And also "eople responding to the word "toxic" but not spending time thinking about the actual subject matter itself" is IMPOSSIBLE if the person replying about the word is giving deep detailed refutes...

The word TOXIC is what is causing it and I gave the reasons why as a counter point to YOUR reasons why its a problem. To dismiss it outright and make comments like you did, is to become what you yourself are talking about. Congrats.

As I said, you can talk about the word toxic with someone else who thinks it's important. That someone else isn't me.

I don't think there's any merit to the points you made. I collectively dismissed that entire line of thought in the original post you quoted. To repeat myself - people who get hung up on the word "toxic" are refusing to engage the substantive discussion by deflecting it to a conversation about their emotional response to the word "toxic".

When people are debating the terms of art instead of the substantive issues, they are wasting my time.

That is why I dismissed your entire post - debating the pros and cons of the word "toxic" is a waste of my time. It's irrelevant. It could be called "My Little Pony Masculinity" or "Chuck Norris Masculinity" and it would be an equally pointless conversation. Because my interest is in the behaviors under the terminology, not the terminology itself.

When I raise my child to do the right vs. the wrong thing or when I try to do the right vs. the wrong thing - I don't say to myself "That's wrong behavior but because the academics call it 'toxic' and I think 'toxic' is the wrong word, I will stop evaluating if it's the wrong behavior until they change the title."

TL;DR? Terms of art aren't worth debating when the substantive material is still unaddressed.