What is the future of the UFC HW division?

[Xhizors]

May I ask if you have names in mind? I'm sure they are out there but I started this thread in part because I am genuinely curious as to who they are. I know Tybura looks good, but he is already close to 30. Volkov and Minakov look ok but Bellator's HW division is pretty terrible so it's hard to say.

Check these threads, they got almost 2 thousand posts combined...

unsigned heavyweights

unsigned heavyweights thread two

 

[wellsdj1]

The fact that meat head on the sherdog threads is talked about being 2 fights away from a title shots shows how bad HW mma is .

 

[The Bard]

It seems to only be affecting HW's though. The road to the UFC is even easier for them too but there isn't much coming down the pipeline. A LW or a WW might have to string together 10 or 12 wins to get a look. It seems like the standard is lower for HW's. PAy has to be part of it but the HW division is particularly bad.

Great featherweight athletes don't play in the NFL.

On any given football weekend, between college and the NFL, there are 2,000 men between the ages of 18-36 who are over 250 pounds and are athletic. Some make good money playing professionally, others make a decent to great living coaching from middle school to the professional ranks.

And a lot of them wouldn't make the 265 weight limit for HW. They're not even going to try doing MMA with that in mind.

 

[Hotei]

2005 fighters > 2015 fighters

Reasonable.

I don't even think cain and jds would even crack top 10 in 2005.

Crazy.

 

[Jew Jif Shoes]

2005 fighters > 2015 fighters

Anyday. The evidence proves it.

I don't even think cain and jds would even crack top 10 in 2005. A washed up Mark Hunt gave JDS a run in 2014. A Prime 2005 Mark Hunt wasn't even ranked

Cain and JDS would absolutely have been top 10. Both are physical beasts and very skilled.

And Mark Hunt is a better MMA fighter now than he's even been, physical "prime" aside.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

Lots of lhw cut weight. Ufa should offer someone like Bader money to not cCT weight and fight at HW.

 

[rjmbrd]

I understand that the financial rewards aren't there. But they aren't there for the lighter guys either, and the lighter guys can be gym teachers and coaches too.

One could argue the financial prospects are better for heavier guys because their road to the UFC is the easiest and the sport is starved for HW's to market. So I think there has to be something more to the lack of new talent other than $$$

Either way I think the UFC HW division is goign to continue to be bad and will probably get worse in the years to come.

All due respect you are still missing the point.

There are far, far more men that naturally fit into the weight divisions below heavyweight. This is why we see more depth and abundance there. Planet earth just does not produce a vast quantity of giant humans. The NFL naturally attracts from this category of men.

What should be underlined is the UFC fails to attract nearly any of them because the value proposition is so low.

 

[Renzo Gracie NH]

All due respect you are still missing the point.

There are far, far more men that naturally fit into the weight divisions below heavyweight. This is why we see more depth and abundance there. Planet earth just does not produce a vast quantity of giant humans. The NFL naturally attracts from this category of men.

What should be underlined is the UFC fails to attract nearly any of them because the value proposition is so low.

I can see that I was missing your point on the fact that there are less HW's because there are other more lucrative sports that attract big men, and there are less big men to begin with. It is a great point, and I apologize for missing it.

Do you think that better international scouting would be a way around this? There are plenty of countries in which being a huge athlete is less lucrative because of the sports they value. In countries that don't have sports like American Football and Rugby, a guy that is 6-4 and 240 might naturally gravitate towards combat sports. In a lto of these countries the pay be more attractive two. There are quite a few countries in Eastern Europe that aren't on the euro and for them the chances of getting 20-30k per fight might be more attractive. A lto of these countries have great bases in various martial arts too.

To get more to the the original point of the post, do you see an improvement on the horizon? Do you think the money will improve enough to solve the problem? Or do you see HW continuing to be a sub-par division?

 

[SirDiddymus]

Huggy bear - 28 years old (though he is over 300lbs) ranked 40th in the world

.

Damn he gained some weight

 

[rjmbrd]

Do you think that better international scouting would be a way around this?

I think in black and white - the UFC is undeniably counting on cheap labor from expansion countries. Without debating the merits of that game plan, suffice to say I think its already well ensconced in their current business practice.

There are plenty of countries in which being a huge athlete is less lucrative because of the sports they value. In countries that don't have sports like American Football and Rugby, a guy that is 6-4 and 240 might naturally gravitate towards combat sports. In a lto of these countries the pay be more attractive two. There are quite a few countries in Eastern Europe that aren't on the euro and for them the chances of getting 20-30k per fight might be more attractive. A lto of these countries have great bases in various martial arts too.

There are a lot of elements in the equation, but I believe you have to factor where young talent is fostered. It requires both start-up capital and reasonable future opportunity. You need to land in an elite camp to be prepared for elite level MMA.

To get more to the the original point of the post, do you see an improvement on the horizon? Do you think the money will improve enough to solve the problem? Or do you see HW continuing to be a sub-par division?

I'm not really sure. The UFC PPV buyrate and TV ratings are through the floor (in the last year aggregate, not the few spikes on the chart) They seem to be marching forward with a massively busy schedule and sky high PPV prices. A 30% drop in EBITA and lowered credit rating shouldn't spell 'more of the same' but that seems to be the case - doubling down on the current model.

You cannot image how many absolute studs like Cain and Cormier are working 30-50k a year jobs as gym teachers. Consider that 8 new All-American heavyweights graduate each year. The UFC can't seem to attract these guys into an already thin, aging division because the value proposition is not good.

The handful of guys at the absolute top of MMA make real money. Everyone else essentially risks health for peanuts. I honestly do believe making a more reasonable pay structure at the bottom would radically change the quality of athletes we see in all divisions, but especially heavyweight.

I don't see any indication that this is what the UFC will do - their most recent radical idea was to book a 0-0-0 entertainer who's never fought in any combat sport, nearing 40, with multiple injuries. I cannot imagine what size check that took, but long term for the sport I wish they spent that money elsewhere.

 

[Chillez]

2005 fighters > 2015 fighters

Anyday. The evidence proves it.

I don't even think cain and jds would even crack top 10 in 2005. A washed up Mark Hunt gave JDS a run in 2014. A Prime 2005 Mark Hunt wasn't even ranked

The 2005 HW division was better than it is now no doubt.

 

[Taric]

I made a thread about this as well just the other day.

 

[rjmbrd]

A washed up Mark Hunt gave JDS a run in 2014. A Prime 2005 Mark Hunt wasn't even ranked

Dos Santos dropped Hunt in the very first round with his signature punch. Hunt went down like a ton of bricks. Hunt proceeds to whiff air for another round while getting completely picked apart.

Dos Santos finished Hunt with a spinning wheel kick because... why not. He threw a super sloppy, low percentage YOLO kick. Thats how much of a summary beating Dos Santos put on Hunt. He kicked his ass with complete impunity.

You either didn't watch the fight or just trololol'ing