What is ''the basics''???

[yetanother]

Breakfalls. O soto gari. The single leg. Scissor sweep. Upa escape. Shrimp. Guard recovery from side control. Americana. Armbar from mount. RNC.

How often do you americana someone?

 

[Rjay]

"technique shaming".... jesus. It's like Huffington Post for BJJ.

IMO basics = high percentage. It doesn't mean easy or simple. Controlling from the mount with pressure to set up sub opportunities is the basics, but it's not an easy or simple thing to do and has an almost limitless amount of nuance with new details being developed all the time. There's a reason this is the stuff works in MMA. 10th Planet attack chains I keep seeing on social media with about 100 steps are not the basics. The overall concept of focusing on the basics in any case is a message to white belts to learn the fundamentals of moving your body on the ground before moving onto complicated techniques. By the time you reach purple belt nobody says that any more.

 

[Solidus Snake]

"technique shaming".... jesus. It's like Huffington Post for BJJ.

IMO basics = high percentage. It doesn't mean easy or simple. Controlling from the mount with pressure to set up sub opportunities is the basics, but it's not an easy or simple thing to do and has an almost limitless amount of nuance with new details being developed all the time. There's a reason this is the stuff works in MMA. 10th Planet attack chains I keep seeing on social media with about 100 steps are not the basics. The overall concept of focusing on the basics in any case is a message to white belts to learn the fundamentals of moving your body on the ground before moving onto complicated techniques. By the time you reach purple belt nobody says that any more.

Was gonna say "high percentage techniques that don't require too many steps to work", but you articulated it better than me.

 

[judoka loca]

How often do you americana someone?

It is very high percentage from white belts to white belts.

 

[thugpoet]

I'll start

I think that every open guard that are useful to sweep are part of the basics (DLR, RDLR, SLX, X guard) and you should master them before trying to play complex lapel games.

I also think that trying to get to the back from open guard (kiss of the dragon, DLR X...) are very complex moves and should be learned at an higher level

I disagree closed guard and the such are what's considered the basics

 

[Quebec Nick]

I disagree closed guard and the such are what's considered the basics

So even butterfly guard shouldn't be shown to beginners...

Closed guard works, but it's for some body types and preference. It's also unusable against a standing opponent or just against someone in combat base. You can believe that nobody will ever break your closed guard but it's still gonna happen and you need to have an answer for those situation.

Personnaly I just use closed guard when someone try to smash me in my butterfly guard and I'm going for sweeps or arm drag back takes. I know the basic subs, I drill them in class but it just never put them in my game.

 

[Quebec Nick]

How often do you americana someone?

It only works if you're trapping someone with other threaths. One of my coach is very good for switching from arm crush to americana to standard arm bar. Sometimes he tricks you into an americana because you're defending the arm crush and vice versa.

I did one yesterday to an ''old timer'' beginner (he's got experience but sometimes he has brain farts and act like a newby). I was using the americana threath from the mount to make him turn and then take the back / bow and arrow him. After a couple of times, he understood what I was doing so he didn't try to defend the americana and I finished him with it.

But with the basics, most of the time the defensive moves are very effective. If you're not surprised it's not likely to work. You must have a major quickness, explosion, flexibility or strenght advantage to pull it off against someone who knows what's going on. Or you have to trick them to make them react too late.

 

[yetanother]

But with the basics, most of the time the defensive moves are very effective. If you're not surprised it's not likely to work. You must have a major quickness, explosion, flexibility or strenght advantage to pull it off against someone who knows what's going on..

This is the definition of a trash move.

 

[thugpoet]

So even butterfly guard shouldn't be shown to beginners...

Closed guard works, but it's for some body types and preference. It's also unusable against a standing opponent or just against someone in combat base. You can believe that nobody will ever break your closed guard but it's still gonna happen and you need to have an answer for those situation.

Personnaly I just use closed guard when someone try to smash me in my butterfly guard and I'm going for sweeps or arm drag back takes. I know the basic subs, I drill them in class but it just never put them in my game.

If we are talking about personal opinion then I think what should be taught is what the coaches game is. Ie I am a half guard player so I'd teach the basics of my half guard game.

I was under the impression that this was about the basics of Bjj generally. And generally speaking close guard is day one stuff. Along with shrimping and Americana from Mount etc.

I agree game should be body type specific

 

[Quebec Nick]

If we are talking about personal opinion then I think what should be taught is what the coaches game is. Ie I am a half guard player so I'd teach the basics of my half guard game.

I was under the impression that this was about the basics of Bjj generally. And generally speaking close guard is day one stuff. Along with shrimping and Americana from Mount etc.

I agree game should be body type specific

My point was that Butterfly guard with the basic hook sweep should be considered like closed guard and cissor sweep. There's no reason that this highly effective guard shouldn't be put on the same level has closed guard when you show the basics of BJJ.

 

[thugpoet]

My point was that Butterfly guard with the basic hook sweep should be considered like closed guard and cissor sweep. There's no reason that this highly effective guard shouldn't be put on the same level has closed guard when you show the basics of BJJ.

I know what your point was. I am saying that despite what WE feel it's not considered "basic"

For the record I think the butterfly sweep is maybe the highest percentage sweep of all time. And should absolutely be included in the Bjj for dummies book.

That wasn't the question however. ( as I interpreted)

 

[RemyR]

When I think of basic tips for a newer BJJ guy the #1 thing IMO is frame of mind. Able to stay calm when things aren’t going your way and when they are. Calm, working towards your next move, and ready to either aggressively follow through or switch to something else if it isn’t working.

Not exactly technique related but IMO it’s the most basic skill needed to improve in BJJ.

 

[yetanother]

It's pointless do discuss what are "basics" without defining the word.

 

[EndlessCritic]

O soto gari.

O soto gari is the furthest thing in the world from a basic technique.

Basic techniques should be by definition techniques that allow you to slowly progress to victory with control, rather than having to take large risks or sacrifice position to make them work.

 

[judoka loca]

O soto gari is the furthest thing in the world from a basic technique.

Basic techniques should be by definition techniques that allow you to slowly progress to victory with control, rather than having to take large risks or sacrifice position to make them work.

Then why is it usually the first throw taught to beginners in both judo and jiu jitsu? And what would be a better alternative? It's excellent for self defense and learning kuzushi.

 

[yetanother]

O soto gari is the furthest thing in the world from a basic technique.

Basic techniques should be by definition techniques that allow you to slowly progress to victory with control, rather than having to take large risks or sacrifice position to make them work.

Was there a definition of basic in this thread?

 

[dmwalking]

Technique shaming is something I see all the time here on sherdog and also at my gym.

People arguing that you should concentrate on the basics and never try the funky stuff.

But what I find annoying is that the basics vary from people to people. For some anything, outside of closed guard is funky sporty stuff for others it's just lapel play and berimbolo that should'nt even be in the sport.

I want to know what is good basic techniques for you and what should be avoided for being too funky.

Basics are really up to the instructor. Everyone has different ideas. But the fundamentals are the little details that allow a move to work. And those also vary.

I started as a 10th planet guy so that is my foundation. Lockdown path is my basics. But I learned a lot of fundamentals like pumellling for double underhooks from the bottom. It's a fundamental that helps in lots of situations. Rubber guard is my basics. The fundamentals I picked up were how to break and control posture. Twister side control is part of my foundation. I learned the importance of being able to ride your opponent's movement. So even though I don't practice knee on belly often, when I do use it, it feels natural because I learned the fundamentals of riding the bottom guy's movement.

I can go on and on. But basics vary from school to school. The fundamentals are the details that make things work. There's so much to learn that it only comes by repetition. I think that's why instructors focus on basics so much. The more you practice your basics, the stronger your fundamentals get. So when people say focus on basics, basically it's another way of saying, just listen to your instructor.

All that said, if you can't experiment with funky stuff, you'll probably get bored quick. At least I do. I always like to mix in a little experimentation from time to time. Or try a move I watched on youtube. It keeps things interesting.

 

[dmwalking]

Man, reading through the thread, I'm glad I started at an open minded school.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Then why is it usually the first throw taught to beginners in both judo and jiu jitsu? And what would be a better alternative? It's excellent for self defense and learning kuzushi.

I have no idea why it's so commonly taught. It isn't a simple throw to execute against a resisting opponent, and is very risky. It's also rarely used in BJJ, although I do know one girl who is a master with it:

https://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/yacinta-nguyen

 

[OdinsHallsBJJ]

Technique shaming is something I see all the time here on sherdog and also at my gym.

People arguing that you should concentrate on the basics and never try the funky stuff.

But what I find annoying is that the basics vary from people to people. For some anything, outside of closed guard is funky sporty stuff for others it's just lapel play and berimbolo that should'nt even be in the sport.

I want to know what is good basic techniques for you and what should be avoided for being too funky.

Escapes! I've always felt that you should play whatever funky game you like, and have fun with it. As long as you're solid on your technical escapes and defense, go for it. Attacks aren't supposed to be predictable