What is considered the minimum for "Lay and Pray"?

[welcometohavoc]

My definition of LnP is being content with controlling an opponent without an attempt to finish the fight.

 

[Free_MMAson]

When the audience boo-meter increases beyond zero decibels

 

[jiujitsuforever]

if you take someone down, do no damage, dont pass, or go for subs then you=fitch/shields

 

[The Batman]

I see your Guida over Hioki and raise you Woodley over Mein

I guess from that point it goes to personal preference.

 

[ShagginTurtles]

Lol, it's so obvious you're citing the Hendricks fight because you're a GSP fanboy. I have agree, though. Those takedowns only served to stop Condit from hitting him any further, and he did nothing further with the takedowns. Lay-n-praying.

Oh come on!

I named that fight because it's recent and still in memory.. I'm a huge fan of Hendricks and Condit and the fight was awesome but if you agree with my example maybe there's more to it than just I'm a GSP fan

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Many people consider GSP to be an LNP master, while others say he is active enough.

Nobody would say that Cain Velasquez, Chael Sonnen, Chris Weidman, Jon Jones and Mark Munoz are Lay and Prayers.

So while everybody agrees that Clay Guida Lays and Prays. What is the bare minimum a fighter has to do from the top for it to not be considered "Lay and Pray".

GSP is not "active enough" .. he is one of the MOST ACTIVE fighters in the UFC. He also spends half the fights standing and wins the standup in every fight. I don't consider Guida lay and pray either, he constantly tries to advance position ... but he isn't dominant enough so fighters can cancel his game out. This means he is elite enough to control the fight, but not so much better than he has his way with them, and the fight can be stagnant.

 

[PAPERCLIP30]

If it doesn't end in KO or sub, its LnP.

 

[Balzak]

I don't care if a fighter passes guard but never actually tries to go for the finish or submission.

I consider it lay n pray if you don't try to FINISH THE FIGHT.

Meh thats dumb, the guy who perform GnP IS trying to finish the fight

 

[Enigma87]

When someone takes down their opponent and isn't being consistently active in attempting to finish the fight. I don't if its not violent or exciting as long as they are trying to posture up frr effective GnP, trying to pass guard, attempting submissions, etc.

I think the MAIN problem is always not taking risks. If you get a takedown and realize you have no chance to finish the fight or get to a more dominant position, you need to take a risk.

 

[PAPERCLIP30]

if you take someone down, do no damage, dont pass, or go for subs then you=fitch/shields

Shields passed Maia's guard 5 times in his very last fight. 7 times against Herman, 10 times against Martin, and 16 times against Henderson.

I know he isn't the most exciting fighter, but please don't label him as LnP

 

[Balzak]

If it doesn't end in KO or sub, its LnP.

In that case I remember many fights that never went on the ground that are an obvious display of LnP

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

GSP is not "active enough" .. he is one of the MOST ACTIVE fighters in the UFC. He also spends half the fights standing and wins the standup in every fight. I don't consider Guida lay and pray either, he constantly tries to advance position ... but he isn't dominant enough so fighters can cancel his game out. This means he is elite enough to control the fight, but not so much better than he has his way with them, and the fight can be stagnant.

Advancing position means nothing if you dont do anything with it, passing guard is a means to the end, not an excuse to stall in a dominant position

 

[hYpeo12]

Gloves are too big, sick of watching so called "Fighters" hiding behind pillows

you never disappoint.

 

[Wayweary]

Sonnen is way more of a LnP artist than GSP could ever be said to be by anyone intelligent anywhere.

 

[Magnum1978]

Intent to control position first and foremost and damage or finish clear second. Clasping hands behind the back of the guard player is an example. A fighter not taking clear opportunities to pass, but staying 'busy' enough to avoid stand up. It give the viewer the feeling that the fighter's intention is to take this position and chip away at the clock, more than they are concerned about hurting their opponent. Content to defend submissions rather than to actively damage.

Basically using the flaws in the judging/system to their own advantage.

Personally I think they should get rid of the 'control' criteria altogether and disregard what position a fight takes place, instead focusing simply on WHAT happens, rather than WHERE it happens.

 

[ayiio]

If you consider the mastery that GSP produced fights after fights to be LnP then you should consider not watching MMA anymore as you are clearly not a fan of MMA .
There's still boxing ,Muy thai , K-1 and other striking only combat sports .

 

[Karelinator]

Refusing to bang, bro.