What is considered the minimum for "Lay and Pray"?

The ambiguity of what lay and pray actually happens to be is well illustrated by comparing the Khabib v. Healy fight and the Carmont v. Phillipou fight. Carmont was relatively active from top position and was undoubtedly the superior fighter. Carmont got endless shit for pretty much dominating Costa using his wrestling and top game. In the third round of Khabib v. Healy, Khabib thoroughly outgrappled Healy, having him on his back for the majority of the round. He was relatively active, as well, though no more than Carmont was. Khabib was almost universally lauded for what he did, whereas Carmont was incessantly called boring.
 
Lol
Guida is a prime example. If you take someone down and the only offense you're doing is some shoulder strikes because you don't want to lose position you're definitely a lnp'er. People just hate on chael and gsp but chael doesn't stop punching and gsp is always looking to pass and improve.

agreed.

OTOH, others who say Chael is "kicking his ass" isn't exactly right either. punching someone 200+ times in the face so lightly that they aren't hurt -because hurting them is 2nd priority to while keeping position - is not LnP, but neither is it kicking someone's ass. it's something in between. it's winning the fight.
 
The ambiguity of what lay and pray actually happens to be is well illustrated by comparing the Khabib v. Healy fight and the Carmont v. Phillipou fight. Carmont was relatively active from top position and was undoubtedly the superior fighter. Carmont got endless shit for pretty much dominating Costa using his wrestling and top game. In the third round of Khabib v. Healy, Khabib thoroughly outgrappled Healy, having him on his back for the majority of the round. He was relatively active, as well, though no more than Carmont was. Khabib was almost universally lauded for what he did, whereas Carmont was called incessantly boring.

Because Carmont is super explosive and athletic, he's supposed to be more entertaining!
 
This is an MMA site....

I don't understand what you're getting at.

I found out Kimbo was on TUF and started my account. MMA was cool when Brock was still around, but now it's just boring.
 
Many people consider GSP to be an LNP master, while others say he is active enough.

Nobody would say that Cain Velasquez, Chael Sonnen, Chris Weidman, Jon Jones and Mark Munoz are Lay and Prayers.

So while everybody agrees that Clay Guida Lays and Prays. What is the bare minimum a fighter has to do from the top for it to not be considered "Lay and Pray".

the main problem here is simply bias.
Everyone attacks whoever they don't like, and defend whoever they like.

Lay & pray IMO is when a fighter is hurt and takes the opponent down and just holds them down (until ref stands them back up) so they can shake the cobwebs from his head.

Clay or GSP are both active on the top.
Heck, Chael is active on the top.

but that depends what you call "active". Throwing punches might be considered active. but when punches have no power behind them... are they really "active"?

GSP always tries to pass. but he almost never risk losing control to attempt a submission. Is this being "Active"?

IMO I'd think that, if you are on top, and you are not trying to mount or submit someone, you are not really "active". You are simply exercising control over the guy at the bottom.
But I am also against standing them up. It is up to the guy at the bottom to scoop his ass back up (if he choses to do so) or keep at the bottom and lose the round.
but THAT is my personal choice anyway! ;)
 
I found out Kimbo was on TUF and started my account. MMA was cool when Brock was still around, but now it's just boring.

Brock vs Kimbo. 2mil PPV buys easily and the best fight the sport of MMA could give.
 
Only if Brock doesn't fight like a little bitch and try to hump Kimbo for the whole fight!

Haha definitely the largest LnP'r in history! I bet he just rides Kimbo like he did Herring!
 
GSP is the king of LNP P4P #1 champion

All he does is pass guard and nothing else while being the superior fighter
 
Only if Brock doesn't fight like a little bitch and try to hump Kimbo for the whole fight!

lol, I don't think even the most stupid of people will say that after Brock GNP's Kimbo into mince meat.
 
I'd say as long as you are either legitimately trying to pass guard or throwing powerful strikes it's not Lay and Praying, if you are just holding position to try and win the decision on position along then you are.

GSP lands a lot of strikes and passes guard so I don't know how anyone can say he "lay and prays". I think part of it is because he use to be so much more fun to watch, I'm not really a fan of his anymore but he doesn't Lay and Pray.
 
GSP is the king of LNP P4P #1 champion

All he does is pass guard and nothing else while being the superior fighter

I also don't like this "passing guard" bs tbh. Finishing is the only thing that matters.
 
Back
Top