What Happens to Dustin Ortiz Will Tell Us the Fate of the Flyweight Division

Druken_Vovchanchyn said:
one or two guys cant support an entire division is what we are seeing right? Notice how when jones was gone we still had gus, rumble and dc?

those guys you mentioned dont mean shit to people buying ppv's and casuals. They liked Mcall and MM and Dodson, that was really it.

Bagunitov, Horiguchi. Benavidez ,Forminga they dont sell for shit. Not vs each other and not even vs MM. On a forum like sherdog ofcourse you will find people to embrace the true beauty of MMA...However from a business stand point they dont equate to shit. As far as MM, what does he do to promote him self and sell fights? Play video games? He had to be the most bland bad ass of all time and that was part of the problem too. You can take EVERY other division aside from 145 woman's and maybe 125 woman's and replace ANY fighter and the division will go on.

as far as smith, people LIKE watching him fight lol. You have to really seperate the business side of things and, "whats fair"
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Gus barely fought though. Rumble retired like a while ago now too.

Benavidez is a draw too. Horiguchi used to not sell for shit, if he came back might be a bit different. Yeah odv the rest don't, was just going off because Bagunitov was boring and a terrible choice for MM's first PPV.

No one's denying MM doesn't generate hype or was pretty boring compared to the usual guys you see in this sport. Was just talking about how his super shitty numbers aren't a reflection of his popularity cause the UFC put him on shitty cards no one would buy all by himself. Cjuedo or just about anyone would do better.

People like watching Smith fight?
 
Druken_Vovchanchyn said:
None of that matters at all lol. thats just the reason why they fucked up. It still doesnt work and we are seeing it now lol. Why would nunes ever go back to 135 if she just smoked cyborg so easy at 145? because 145 isnt a real division.

as for 125 who cares why it happened,? its still a fact. they ddint promote it right because WHO could they promote? Lol i get YOU love the 125ers but what SHOULD they have done? Not many people get excited for guys that are 5'1 and 125 pounds. It just doesnt work


remebre i never said anytihng you said was really wrong, you are just giving the reasons WHY. 125 and 145 are dead divisions walking unless somehting changes fast
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You miss the point.
"they don't promote because there's no one deserving to be promoted".
That's such as stupid argument.
They are a fucking PROMOTION.
Their job is to do one thing :pROMOTE.

If they don't promote, then don't complain there's no one famous. That is directly an effect of not being promoted.

Oh, and by the way: they didn't have anyone to promote???
DJ was considered by many the GOAT. with finishes like this:
giphy.gif


Sorry, that's an amazing finish.
If the UFC was anywhere competent, this would be everywhere.
But they suck at promoting.
That's why they need to rely on polarizing guys like Conor or Ronda or even loudmouth dickheads like Colby.

As DJ was not such a person, they were at an impasse. This is squarely UFC's fault IMO, and not the fighters.
 
@Shaddows

please dont put words in my mouth brotha....i never said they didnt deserve it. That would be implying that i agree with what is happening. Im just pointing out what IS going down not what i agree with..

I said who? as in, they arent going to throw money on people the public isnt going to back. Plus, thats one man. They DID try to push MM, he just didnt promote him self the way some of the other contractors on the roster.....who else could they promote at 125 and honestly get away with it. Henry is the first guy. They dont have guys like Yoel, Rumble,cowboy,Robbie,Francis and the black beast and many many others in every division that they can promote to build up these huge fights.

Every other division has many guys that have the "it" factor that they can promote.

Add in the fact that the gif you just showed was after 24.5 minutes of a brutality boring fight. You cant forget about the other 99% of the fight my friend. Hey you should watch this TV show, the first 4 seasons suck ass but the last one is super exciting. No, The fact that its entertainment is the ONLY reason its a business. Most of the time mighty mouse fighters its boring to the casuals for whatever reason. Not to mention that was agaisnt Ray fucking Borg right? I
 
you can't shutdown a division when you just present them with the 1st new belt..
 
I like Cejudo, but saying the rematch should be at 135lbs doesn’t help to “save the division”.

If Cejudo goes up to 135 and beats TJ, I doubt he’d come back down to 125.

If he mentally played the UFC and TJ by saying “I beat you....be like Conor and fight me at the same weight, again, champ champ” then I’d think he’s saving the division.
While I personally would rather see the rematch at 135, he would have cornered the UFC as if they ditched the 125 division they just made Cejudo a big big star in whatever promotion he goes to while simultaneously shitting on themselves as they just got rid of a fighter representing a division that beat a current champion.
 
Huligani said:
Agreed. The only interesting fights for Cejudo are at BW. Who is there for him to fight at FLW? Benavidez again?
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Well, yeah. He has a lose to him and Benavidez deserves a title shot. It makes sense. How can you not see that?

Huligani said:
FLW is just too weak to exist on its own, and unlike LHW/HW which are similarly weak, FLW will ALWAYS be that weak due to how few humans are small enough to make 125 lbs.
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They are not just 125 pounds, fool. They cut to that weight but fight at 140 and that's 140 pounds when they are fit, on a strict diet and in shape. Look at boxing, they have like 6 weight divisions below 125. There is a lot of people that can be on that division. It just needs more time.

There are already 50+ bantamweights in the UFC and 30 flyweights. If they cut the division, don't think they will get rid of all of them, BW will move from 50 to 70 and the division will look like lightweight and welterweight where it takes a winning streak of 3 years to get a titleshot.
 
Shaddows said:
You miss the point.
"they don't promote because there's no one deserving to be promoted".
That's such as stupid argument.
They are a fucking PROMOTION.
Their job is to do one thing :pROMOTE.

If they don't promote, then don't complain there's no one famous. That is directly an effect of not being promoted.

Oh, and by the way: they didn't have anyone to promote???
DJ was considered by many the GOAT. with finishes like this:
giphy.gif


Sorry, that's an amazing finish.
If the UFC was anywhere competent, this would be everywhere.
But they suck at promoting.
That's why they need to rely on polarizing guys like Conor or Ronda or even loudmouth dickheads like Colby.

As DJ was not such a person, they were at an impasse. This is squarely UFC's fault IMO, and not the fighters.
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I thought he did it higher up than that but after watching it it doesn't seem as insane as a lot of people made it seem like..
 
It didn't, in fact Dana still won't confess that he's abolishing it. Cejudo is OK, but he's not a savior by any means. Dana can flip on the drop of a hat of what he wants to do.

Cejudo could go to Bellator or One or a place like that and still find success. He has two UFC belts now and he could be happy knowing he was a UFC champion at one point.
 
ReggieK said:
What is this statement based on? He has main evented one card, ever. It was on free TV and it didn't do a great rating.
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He never got a chance too because after that fight, he never could be a title contender while MM was still around. MM v Benavidez 2 was super anticipated back in the day and should have been a PPV. Look at the card MM v Benavidez 2 was on, again no support. That was the most anticipated fight in the division. Benavidez couldn't headline after that cause he couldn't fight for a title or a shot after that.

There's like 2-3 guys who can headline cards with nothing on the line in the UFC. Also Benavidez also was co main event in UFC 152 with Jones v Belfort a matchup no one wanted to see. It did 450k, while MM v Cjuedo 1 did 320 co maining for Jones v OSP.
 
If TJ won, DW would have the opportunity to dissolve the division tomorrow with some goofy ass logic to justify it. At least for now the division is still available for a little longer. And it's possible Henry might be able to draw in high rating for the division.
 
Greg House said:
Well, yeah. He has a lose to him and Benavidez deserves a title shot. It makes sense. How can you not see that?


They are not just 125 pounds, fool. They cut to that weight but fight at 140 and that's 140 pounds when they are fit, on a strict diet and in shape. Look at boxing, they have like 6 weight divisions below 125. There is a lot of people that can be on that division. It just needs more time.

There are already 50+ bantamweights in the UFC and 30 flyweights. If they cut the division, don't think they will get rid of all of them, BW will move from 50 to 70 and the division will look like lightweight and welterweight where it takes a winning streak of 3 years to get a titleshot.
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30's more than the division started with. It had something in the 20's when it started and it was pretty deep. You don't really need more than 15 guys to keep the division. Think that might have been what the mass cuts were about?
 
Get rid of LHW, since the LHW beat the HW champ
Get rid of FW, since the FW champ beat the LW champ

Am I doing this right?
 
Druken_Vovchanchyn said:
@Shaddows

please dont put words in my mouth brotha....i never said they didnt deserve it. That would be implying that i agree with what is happening. Im just pointing out what IS going down not what i agree with..

I said who? as in, they arent going to throw money on people the public isnt going to back. Plus, thats one man. They DID try to push MM, he just didnt promote him self the way some of the other contractors on the roster.....who else could they promote at 125 and honestly get away with it. Henry is the first guy. They dont have guys like Yoel, Rumble,cowboy,Robbie,Francis and the black beast and many many others in every division that they can promote to build up these huge fights.

Every other division has many guys that have the "it" factor that they can promote.

Add in the fact that the gif you just showed was after 24.5 minutes of a brutality boring fight. You cant forget about the other 99% of the fight my friend. Hey you should watch this TV show, the first 4 seasons suck ass but the last one is super exciting. No, The fact that its entertainment is the ONLY reason its a business. Most of the time mighty mouse fighters its boring to the casuals for whatever reason. Not to mention that was agaisnt Ray fucking Borg right? I
Click to expand...

They had one champ before this, one guys unlikeablity(which as I've pointed out was not given a chance to draw) shouldn't tank a divsion, that sets a terrible precedent and by this logic 145 should have died. Also Dodson went up and Horiguchi and Bagunitov were thrown out specifically cause they didn't have a place in the division with MM gone. Dodson can come back seeing he ain't getting a 135 shot and the other two make sense to sign now while before they can't fight for the title.

Benavidez and Forminga are two good matchups with the fighters they have left.
 
ferrisjso said:
He never got a chance too because after that fight, he never could be a title contender while MM was still around. MM v Benavidez 2 was super anticipated back in the day and should have been a PPV. Look at the card MM v Benavidez 2 was on, again no support. That was the most anticipated fight in the division. Benavidez couldn't headline after that cause he couldn't fight for a title or a shot after that.
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If he never got a chance to prove he was a draw then how can you say he was one?

And if the fight with MM was so anticipated why didn't all of the people anticipating it tune into the free TV show where they could watch it?

You can't claim fighters are draws and also claim that they never had a chance to prove they were draws and also blame their poor business on the undercard.

If the main event fighters are draws then they draw the views, that is what the word means. If they need help from the undercard then they aren't draws.

And the idea that any MM fight should have been a PPV is just ridiculous. Look at the PPV numbers he did. He couldn't even get average numbers. He chased PPV buys away.
 
I think they should keep FlyW . I'm not a huge fan but there are a lot of great fighters who are like 140 pounds (which I'm guessing is average weight for a FlyW). Why are people so happy to get rid of it? They can't help how tall they are.

And I'm 6'1" btw. So no manlet here. I'm no UberTS but I can bench teh 225.
 
ferrisjso said:
And look at the LW division where the waiting list for title shots is an eternity? Donald Cerrone has the UFC record for wins in just eight years and he got just one title shot. Khabib and Tony didn't lose for years and look how long that took. That's not something you want to repeat. Conor made it worse obv by holding the belt hostage but it's not like if we take Conor out of it that there's no problem there. You shouldn't have to make history and go an insane win streak to get a title shot.

Joe B and the best 125's can make it at 135 just can't dominate, but they can clog up the line because they are good. Also worth mentioning TJ is probably the least dominant champ in recent UFC history.
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Bit harsh on TJ. Least dominant champ in recent UFC history? Least dominant champ in UFC history full stop is Germaine de randamie. Wins the belt then runs away as fast as she can from Cyborg.
 
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