What Happened to the HW Grapplers?

[ExitLUPin]

Minakov was a fucking monster. Nothing embarrassing about that. He's an amazing grappler. Maia is fucking 44 years old. So is Werdum. Grapplers tend to age a lot better, and at heavyweight?

Minakov was def a beast the point is HW is so bad right now you can take 6 years off not fighting come back in your late 30s/early 40s and still be a top 3 grappler and ranked HW.... Thats really really bad

 

[JustOnce]

agreed

do you think these guys would be able to compete the mat with the hws of 2 generations prior? Nog, Fedor, Mir, Barnett etc

I just find it odd how the sport has clearly progressed in every other division except this one

Who knows? Romanov IS a better wrestler than all four. Espino held his own against Romanov. That's difficult to say.

I tried but I can't answer that. In MMA or no-Gi, it could be different though. I think Romanov and Espino could beat all four in no-gi by getting top control.

In MMA, I really can't say.

 

[JustOnce]

Minakov was def a beast the point is HW is so bad right now you can take 6 years off not fighting come back in your late 30s/early 40s and still be a top 3 grappler and ranked HW.... Thats really really bad

I'm not a fan of Espino or anything so I won't go on with this. But you just have to watch and see. Espino is a real good grappler. Grapplers tend to age better. Maia was fighting Usman at 41 years old for a title for examplee.

I mean yes, you can just watch him and see if he's any good. He is, but if you disagree, then we disagree. Cheers

 

[arcadeperfect]

I think to answer the question seriously

Submission grappling based fighters just aren’t as common these days, and they’re even less common at HW as on average, big men are not going to be as fluid on the mat.

A lot of fighters are happy to just learn some sub defense and TDD and then focus on striking.
It’s what the UFC seems to want from their fighters anyway. It was definitely cool though when we had Nog, Werdum, Barnett, Mir, Fedor etc all capable of taking home a limb or neck. I don’t think we will see that many good sub grapplers all at once ever again at HW.

KOs are also much faster than subs. There's a lot more planning that goes into securing the proper position let alone completing the submission. Add on to the fact that we're talking about HWs where KO power is far more common then it's easy to see why most fighters gravitate towards striking.

 

[JustOnce]

Also, you don't really see it in UFC, Ivanov is a pretty high level Sambo player and was a junior-world level/or euro Judo player. And Latifi can grapple too, that guy moved up to HW. I'm probably forgetting someone.

Miocic has a great single leg when he wants to wrestle as well. Jon Jones is moving up a weight class, he in his prime was arguably best mma wrestler.

Oh yeah I knew I was forgetting someone, Tybura isn't a bad grappler either.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Problem is they get ko'ed to easy with strikers at HW.

 

[JustOnce]

So I'd say

Romanov
Espino
Blaydes
Oleynik
Ivanov
Tybura
Latifi

at heavyweight. I might be forgetting someone, but yeah.

 

[hswrestler]

Aspinall is a bjj black belt

 

[JustOnce]

Someone mentioned Minakov, and it's a pity he wasted his talent the way he did.

If you don't know, he was a beast back in the day. A lone world-class Sports Sambo representative in a high level MMA, got some good power in his hands too....

Arguably the best talent that wasted away in the history of MMA....p4p.

 

[tehMoose]

Valentin Moldavsky is high level grappler but he's in Bellator

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Also, you don't really see it in UFC, Ivanov is a pretty high level Sambo player and was a junior-world level/or euro Judo player. And Latifi can grapple too, that guy moved up to HW. I'm probably forgetting someone.

Miocic has a great single leg when he wants to wrestle as well. Jon Jones is moving up a weight class, he in his prime was arguably best mma wrestler.

Oh yeah I knew I was forgetting someone, Tybura isn't a bad grappler either.

I don't think Ivanov can be mentioned as a grappler he's clearly abandoned it, you also have to lump in Arlovski then who was a world sombo champion in his day if that's the case.

Spivak also got some decent wrestling/subs but he's below Tybura s level.

 

[Haliacmon]

the Nogs, Mirs, Werdums, Barnetts ... are a long gone (or kicked out) in the HW division, just got big punchers and kickboxers

 

[JustOnce]

I don't think Ivanov can be mentioned as a grappler he's clearly abandoned it, you also have to lump in Arlovski then who was a world sombo champion in his day if that's the case.

Spivak also got some decent wrestling/subs but he's below Tybura s level.

Spivak got some decent TDs. He's a well rounded kid.

Arlovski is a sambo silver world medalist when sambo league was split into two, or so I read. He only trained for a year for that apparently. Ivanov is a world champ and he competed internationally at junior level Judo. Different levels in my opinion.

 

[TR1]

What happened to young HW prospects in general?

The landscape has been terrible for over a decade now in that sense.

 

[SteveColdStone]

KOs are also much faster than subs. There's a lot more planning that goes into securing the proper position let alone completing the submission. Add on to the fact that we're talking about HWs where KO power is far more common then it's easy to see why most fighters gravitate towards striking.

Yeah that’s true

 

[Misanthropist]

Probably because those guys back then didn't have to worry about losing about their gas tank until USADA came.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Spivak got some decent TDs. He's a well rounded kid.

Arlovski is a sambo silver world medalist when sambo league was split into two, or so I read. He only trained for a year for that apparently. Ivanov is a world champ and he competed internationally at junior level Judo. Different levels in my opinion.

Arlovski was a world youth sombo champion and European youth champion, then won 2 silver medals in men sombo world cup and world championship and was given Master of Sport. He was high level.

 

[moreorless87]

So I'd say

Romanov
Espino
Blaydes
Oleynik
Ivanov
Tybura
Latifi

at heavyweight. I might be forgetting someone, but yeah.

Honestly though of those only Blaydes would have much arguement as really being elite IMHO, the rest I tend to think its the low standards of their opponents grappling that makes them look more credible.

What happened to young HW prospects in general?

The landscape has been terrible for over a decade now in that sense.

Masisve lack of investment in talent from the UFC.

 

[Jonathan Utah]

I do like Romanov and those forearm chokes.

 

[JustOnce]

Arlovski was a world youth sombo champion and European youth champion, then won 2 silver medals in men sombo world cup and world championship and was given Master of Sport. He was high level.

I know. Not as good as Ivanov in my opinion.

And Ivanov used to grapple in his fights too. Arlovski rarely if ever.