What do you think is missing in the world of strength training?

F

Foulsmeller**

Guest
I think we need more articles that call for the use of compound multi joint lifts. I'd also like to see some ideas on training for functional strength.
 
are you serious? Here's what I think is missing, I think a big heaping load of common sense is needed in the strength training world. i think that we should throw out bullshit vague terms like "functional strength." I think we should all listen more to strength philosophers like dan john who throw out Ideas like peaking, periodizing and go back to doing something that is difficult and heavy and understand what makes it difficult. Trash Ideas like wobble boards and unstable surfaces, bring in a whole array of thickbars and grip work, teach EVERYONE to deadlift, and quit making bullshit non-specific threads about obvious things. more articles on compound lifts? HOW MANY ARTICLES COULD POSSIBLY BE WRITTEN ON SOMETHING SO BASIC? Bah... I agree, we need naked cheerleaders.
 
Urban said:
are you serious? Here's what I think is missing, I think a big heaping load of common sense is needed in the strength training world. i think that we should throw out bullshit vague terms like "functional strength." I think we should all listen more to strength philosophers like dan john who throw out Ideas like peaking, periodizing and go back to doing something that is difficult and heavy and understand what makes it difficult. Trash Ideas like wobble boards and unstable surfaces, bring in a whole array of thickbars and grip work, teach EVERYONE to deadlift, and quit making bullshit non-specific threads about obvious things. more articles on compound lifts? HOW MANY ARTICLES COULD POSSIBLY BE WRITTEN ON SOMETHING SO BASIC? Bah... I agree, we need naked cheerleaders.
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I don't understand your opposition to "functional strength" as a term. It's useful. In fact, in most literature I read, it's used to describe strength resulting from multi-joint lifts (as opposed to those guys who think kickbacks will make them stronger).

Some of the more compound lifts aren't as functional as others. A guy who does the military all the time won't be able to apply that strength to drive through a defender to the hoop or for a rebound (in basketball) as a guy who combines his military with the clean & jerk, straigh push-press, and snatch. The latter athlete has more functional strength.

This isn't a vague term, Urban. Perhaps it is too often misapplied, but I see where he's coming from.

On the other hand, it's not like multi-joint lifts are a secret. I hardly think these need to be introduced to athletes.
 
Urban said:
are you serious? Here's what I think is missing, I think a big heaping load of common sense is needed in the strength training world. i think that we should throw out bullshit vague terms like "functional strength." I think we should all listen more to strength philosophers like dan john who throw out Ideas like peaking, periodizing and go back to doing something that is difficult and heavy and understand what makes it difficult. Trash Ideas like wobble boards and unstable surfaces, bring in a whole array of thickbars and grip work, teach EVERYONE to deadlift, and quit making bullshit non-specific threads about obvious things. more articles on compound lifts? HOW MANY ARTICLES COULD POSSIBLY BE WRITTEN ON SOMETHING SO BASIC? Bah... I agree, we need naked cheerleaders.
Click to expand...


All this anger is going to make you ill.

Edit: Cant beleive you missed my point.,....,.,.,.,.,.,.,

:eek:
 
Madmick said:
I don't understand your opposition to "functional strength" as a term. It's useful. In fact, in most literature I read, it's used to describe strength resulting from multi-joint lifts (as opposed to those guys who think kickbacks will make them stronger).

Some of the more compound lifts aren't as functional as others. A guy who does the military all the time won't be able to apply that strength to drive through a defender to the hoop or for a rebound (in basketball) as a guy who combines his military with the clean & jerk, straigh push-press, and snatch. The latter athlete has more functional strength.

This isn't a vague term, Urban. Perhaps it is too often misapplied, but I see where he's coming from.

On the other hand, it's not like multi-joint lifts are a secret. I hardly think these need to be introduced to athletes.
Click to expand...
What I think what Urban is getting at (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the direction in which strength training has been moving. Functional strength should not be a reference to balance, agility and endurance, but that's exactly what it is. There are many different types of strength and some are more important than others when it comes to an advanced athlete, but ones ability to stand on a rubber ball with a 15 lb weight doesn't constitute a feat of strength...it's a show of ones balance. Now, no one will argue that balance, agility, endurance, etc...are not important in most aspects of athletics, but to train these abilities instead of strength and then have the nerve to call it strength training is not only absurd, but detrimental to an athletes potential. Gain strength from strength training, agility from agility drills, endurance from endurance training and athletic ability from practice.
 
wasptrash said:
What I think what Urban is getting at (please correct me if I'm wrong) is the direction in which strength training has been moving. Functional strength should not be a reference to balance, agility and endurance, but that's exactly what it is. There are many different types of strength and some are more important than others when it comes to an advanced athlete, but ones ability to stand on a rubber ball with a 15 lb weight doesn't constitute a feat of strength...it's a show of ones balance. Now, no one will argue that balance, agility, endurance, etc...are not important in most aspects of athletics, but to train these abilities instead of strength and then have the nerve to call it strength training is not only absurd, but detrimental to an athletes potential. Gain strength from strength training, agility from agility drills, endurance from endurance training and athletic ability from practice.
Click to expand...

Ha! If only Urban said it that way.

I agree, I think there may be too much "cross-training" with the strength training, now, but at the same time, I believe that if someone is not able to apply force while simulatanously balancing (i.e. military DB on swiss ball or push-pressing), he probably won't be able to apply that force to drive through for a takedown when someone is countering that takedown with head control and a sidestep.

That isn't to say I think the regular Military Press is useless. The stronger one is on the military, the stronger one will be on the ball. I see a synergistic effect. I've never done any resistance training on a wobble board or unstable surface, nor seen that prescribed by any of the six CSCS's I routinely work with, but I don't want to group these strange and probably scientifically unsound exercises with those done on the swiss ball. Who started the lunges to the wobble board, anyway? It's almost like someone was told how useful the swiss ball could be, didn't really understand the principle, then tried to apply it in a new, creative, and entirely misappropriate way to another therapeutic tool: the wobble board. It's like those guys I see doing nothing by 1/2 reps on the bench press, but the half rep is from the top to halfway down. What the hell is that? If you're gonna do a 3/4 bench, do it right. It's guys not understanding the principle getting carried away.
 
Good thread guys. Urban, I agree with what you wrote. I believe weightlifting has become "over sophisticated". My advice would be take it back to the basics. What are the basics? Urban listed the gist of the idea in his post above.
 
We need more "soviet secrets!" HAHAHAHA!!!
 
I need a device that makes me have an orgasm when I hit a PR.


Maybe I should ask Carnal where he got his.
 
There are a million things wrong with the whole fitness industry. Bodybuilding for one ruined good quality strength training. To much vanity in that aspect. To many magazines glorying fancy stuff with no purpose, such as to look good, such as diets, lets not even go into diets. Training should have a purpose and always have one.

Back in the old days, when someone needed to protect themselves and their family, they had to be strong no matter what, it would cost them thier lives. No a days, take an athelte, they workout for their sport, then when its over, they quit working out and let themsevles go, theri training did not have an "inner" meaning to them.

People today are no where near as strong as the old timers back in the day. Those guys back then can dead, over 400pds, press over 200pds over their heads,even with 1 arm. They could do handstand pushups and run 5 miles all in one day. Some even boxed and wrestled for hours, not to mention go to work.

Having all this nice stuff to make our life more comfortable and easy sure comes with a price.??? Thats another story or maybe??

People are to brainwashed into every aspect of it. Det, training. You cannot tell them about what is ther right or wrong way, since they will not listen, but will listen to every tom, dick and harry out there or what is right? Its funny, since they ask me or you ( trainers, people with enough intelligence and expereince ) what is the right way??? :eek:

Training is simple, yet is not so simple. Simple as one person wants it to be. Train the body how its suppose to function, then the rest is history. Lets burn all these machines. Granted this can go a lot of ways, since you will run into people who will not use nothing else but machines, etc, one can debate about these people.

Whats missing? Truth
Stop having so many lies out there just to make money, shoot, that can be a lot of different aspects in a lot of people's lives.

I would love a gym with only Clubs, Kettlebells, Sandbags, Rings, Thick bars, Power Racks, Dip bars, good quality mats,etc, but not to many of them around.

Since most will not use them, brings up the question I always say

Everyone is differnt, right? so one can say

Not everyone is suited for marriage?
Not everyone is suited for having children?

Not everyone suited to Weight Train??????
 
Duncon76 said:
There are a million things wrong with the whole fitness industry. Bodybuilding for one ruined good quality strength training. To much vanity in that aspect. To many magazines glorying fancy stuff with no purpose, such as to look good, such as diets, lets not even go into diets. Training should have a purpose and always have one.

Back in the old days, when someone needed to protect themselves and their family, they had to be strong no matter what, it would cost them thier lives. No a days, take an athelte, they workout for their sport, then when its over, they quit working out and let themsevles go, theri training did not have an "inner" meaning to them.

People today are no where near as strong as the old timers back in the day. Those guys back then can dead, over 400pds, press over 200pds over their heads,even with 1 arm. They could do handstand pushups and run 5 miles all in one day. Some even boxed and wrestled for hours, not to mention go to work.

Having all this nice stuff to make our life more comfortable and easy sure comes with a price.??? Thats another story or maybe??

People are to brainwashed into every aspect of it. Det, training. You cannot tell them about what is ther right or wrong way, since they will not listen, but will listen to every tom, dick and harry out there or what is right? Its funny, since they ask me or you ( trainers, people with enough intelligence and expereince ) what is the right way??? :eek:

Training is simple, yet is not so simple. Simple as one person wants it to be. Train the body how its suppose to function, then the rest is history. Lets burn all these machines. Granted this can go a lot of ways, since you will run into people who will not use nothing else but machines, etc, one can debate about these people.

Whats missing? Truth
Stop having so many lies out there just to make money, shoot, that can be a lot of different aspects in a lot of people's lives.

I would love a gym with only Clubs, Kettlebells, Sandbags, Rings, Thick bars, Power Racks, Dip bars, good quality mats,etc, but not to many of them around.

Since most will not use them, brings up the question I always say

Everyone is differnt, right? so one can say

Not everyone is suited for marriage?
Not everyone is suited for having children?

Not everyone suited to Weight Train??????
Click to expand...

WTF, Hitler?

Guys were stronger back in the day? Are you on crack? Weightlifters a century ago would have been broken under the weight guys are pushing out now.

Either this post is sarcastic, and brilliant, or you are ridiculously retarded.
 
Madmick said:
WTF, Hitler?

Guys were stronger back in the day? Are you on crack? Weightlifters a century ago would have been broken under the weight guys are pushing out now.

Either this post is sarcastic, and brilliant, or you are ridiculously retarded.
Click to expand...

hahaha i was thinking the same thing.
 
Madmick said:
WTF, Hitler?

Guys were stronger back in the day? Are you on crack? Weightlifters a century ago would have been broken under the weight guys are pushing out now.

Either this post is sarcastic, and brilliant, or you are ridiculously retarded.
Click to expand...

In his defense, old time strongmen didn't have the science/gear to assist them in lifting their given poundage.
 
Strongmen of about a century ago supposedly had better grip and wrist development and did strange moves like the one arm barbell Snatch. Other than that, yes, the new lifters are smashing records from before.
 
i think what we are missing is the purpose.. at least in my opinion for people who train to fight.

it would be nice if they came up with studies that can directly point out what lifts will help a guy strike harder etc.

Yes the deadlift is the last true test of strength, no real suits or junk compared to bench and squats. But will it help directly in assisting you throw a stronger cross?

these are the the things that need to be filled out... a lot of time theres educated guesses but a comprehensive study or studies need to be done to best help the fighters of the world.
 
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