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Jones at least had to evade a flurry where he ate some shots. Jones was not on the brink at all, but Jones was definitely in more danger than Reyes ever was.
What did Jones do in round 4 and 5?
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I pretty much had the same question myself. It's especially puzzling that Reyes is being accused of running away the whole time when he threw more strikes than Jones in both rounds. I thought Jones won those rounds, but people act like Reyes was cowering away in pure defense mode and Jones dominated him to the point that it negated what Reyes had done in the first 3 rounds. That ain't what I saw. Reyes was never in any real danger and still never stopped moving or throwing despite being tired.
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Not much. But more than Reyes.
Look. Fans cannot change anything. They cannot change round 2 or round 3 on any of the scorecards. They also cannot change how Reyes fought. And some fans hate it when a fighter coasts.
So some fans see "well, Jones shouldn't have won an early round" and "well, Reyes shouldn't have coasted at the end" as a sort of balancing out in the universe. It's not perfect, logical accurate, measurable or even defensible, but it was never meant to be any of those things either. It's just a way to close the topic out in their own minds, and move on.
It's Tuesday. Frankly, those fans who haven't moved on by now are probably more unbalanced than those who have. And since it has no impact how these fans think or believe anyway, who's to say they shouldn't?
Just think. In any other sport you watch you can find statements like "well sure it was a bad pass interference call that lost the Seahawks the game, but then again they won xyz game abc years ago from a pass interference call too, so whatever". It's not exactly the same, but it's close enough.
FFS Germany still justifies any contemporary bad call that goes their way because of the 1986 World Cup finals!!! And it wasn't even Germany then (it was West Germany).
Hand of God, bitches.
Look. Fans cannot change anything. They cannot change round 2 or round 3 on any of the scorecards. They also cannot change how Reyes fought. And some fans hate it when a fighter coasts.
So some fans see "well, Jones shouldn't have won an early round" and "well, Reyes shouldn't have coasted at the end" as a sort of balancing out in the universe. It's not perfect, logical accurate, measurable or even defensible, but it was never meant to be any of those things either. It's just a way to close the topic out in their own minds, and move on.
It's Tuesday. Frankly, those fans who haven't moved on by now are probably more unbalanced than those who have. And since it has no impact how these fans think or believe anyway, who's to say they shouldn't?
Just think. In any other sport you watch you can find statements like "well sure it was a bad pass interference call that lost the Seahawks the game, but then again they won xyz game abc years ago from a pass interference call too, so whatever". It's not exactly the same, but it's close enough.
FFS Germany still justifies any contemporary bad call that goes their way because of the 1986 World Cup finals!!! And it wasn't even Germany then (it was West Germany).
Hand of God, bitches.
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No doubt about that...but judges be saying a lot of shit haha.
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Yes and past history shows us that the judges are not very good. This is not a discussion about who won the fight on points. I want to know how Jones won the war, because there is a narrative that he won the war and that winning the war — whatever that entails in this instance — is the barometer for winning a fight.
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Well summed up. I didn’t see the punch stats for the later rounds but Reyes was still throwing. Who cares if he’s a bit tired after going 5 rounds for the first time in his career against a guy who has gone 5 rounds about 10 times. There must also be an adrenaline dump for Reyes in this situation. The pressure is huge.
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What do you mean by war? It is a fight. They stop fighting when the horn sounds.. This is not a fight to the death..
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I don’t disagree with a lot of what you have said and I appreciate you putting some effort into your post and giving a different perspective.
I am just curious how some of these people can come to the conclusion that Jon Jones won the war. This is a discussion board and I am reading this statement constantly. I don’t see how they have come to that conclusion. It doesn’t have to be a serious thing but I don’t get it. They’re trying to make themselves feel better about what happened but I’d like to hear a legitimate reason for Jones apparently winning the war. What did he do in those last two rounds that gives credibility to that statement? I’m almost positive there is not a good answer that makes sense.
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I can’t explain it any better
poster A is mad because he thinks Reyes won the fight on points
poster B says that Jones won the war and deserved to retain his belt because of that, despite the fact that Reyes may have won more rounds and accumulated more points
How does poster B come to that conclusion? What did Jones do to win the war?
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Poster B is taking a Buzz Word usually reserved for things like WWE literally.. Pro fighting is not a war.. Fury and Wilder will have a hell of a scrap in 11 days.. But not a war.. Just a fight..
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Yes it is a buzzword.
But what they’re implying is that Jones moving forward more than Reyes late on means that Jones should be declared the winner, despite admitting that Reyes won more rounds. They’re not really bothered about the actual rules and scoring system. What did Jones do in those later rounds apart from move forward and wrestle that would make somebody believe that he deserved to win, despite admitting he didn’t win more rounds? That’s my question. If he did a ton of damage then I’d perhaps understand it. Btw I’m not asking you to answer that question for other people.
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Right on.
He didn't wreck Reyes. But he certainly won the rounds. And right or wrong, there is always a bias toward doing better later in the fight. Maybe it's from Pride scoring, or maybe it goes back to 'street fight' bias. But it's there. We saw this same argument after both Whittaker v Romero bouts too (and many others I'm sure that I'm too lazy to think of and list this second).
But yes, I agree with you that folks on here today and yesterday have been over-doing it on this argument. It's like a politician who tries out 11 different stump speeches before finding the one that resonates. Well, Jones fans seem to have finally found an argument that they think resonates, so they're sticking to it.
Also, Rogan said it. And any time Rogan utters anything on a divisive topic, a subset of mma fans choose to consider it gospel or canon, and parrot it back as such.
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Yeah success late can sway the opinion of fans and judges — especially success at the end of the round. I personally prefer pride scoring.
I like your explanation in your second paragraph. They can’t give a legitimate reason for their claim but it might make a bit of sense at first to somebody who doesn’t break down their claim.
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What you are thinking is that you will ask a question and get a direct answer from people.
Big mistake.
The internet is not an orderly debate, it's schizophrenia.
You say something and some other dude says some shit like outworked, didn't do enough, all empty phrases creating layers of abstraction where you end up debating keywords instead of substance.
I can almost guarantee half the answers will be "In order to be the champ you have to beat the champ".
You know what that means? It means: IN THE EVENT OF A DRAW THE CHAMPION RETAINS HIS BELT.
That's it. It doesn't mean shit. It's a fucking rule that somehow turned into an answer for why someone is getting robbed on the scorecards.
Just drop it, save your sanity.
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Yeah I knew what the result would be before I made the thread. I just thought that maybe somebody would at least try, but nah. Most people are parrots. I thought that for sure the “you have to beat the champ line would come up” lol.
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Dude, it's hopeless. This is just a place to cheer for people, discussions are impossible. MMA is just entertainment at this point so treating it otherwise will just kill your spirit.
So just cheer fuckit. Wohoo.
I mean look at this dude
You thought he was going to tell you something like: "In round 4, at 2min30sec Jones hit him with a straight and that wobbled Dominick and then the exchange in minute.... " - WRONG.
He's off on a pro fighting is not war debate... and somehow got Wilder and Fury involved.
He doesn't have a train of thought, his shit is all bumper cars.
I mean like wtf
OCTAGON CONTROL FTW !!!!!
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Yeah there’s definitely no point taking this place too seriously and I usually don’t, but people say stupid shit and sometimes I want to know how they came to that conclusion. There are good posters out there who you can have good discussions with, but I don’t think those kind of people spew the narrative that Jones won the war.Dude, it's hopeless. This is just a place to cheer for people, discussions are impossible. MMA is just entertainment at this point so treating it otherwise will just kill your spirit.
So just cheer fuckit. Wohoo.
I mean look at this dude
You thought he was going to tell you something like: "In round 4, at 2min30sec Jones hit him with a straight and that wobbled Dominick and then the exchange in minute.... " - WRONG.
He's off on a pro fighting is not war debate... and somehow got Wilder and Fury involved.
He doesn't have a train of thought, his shit is all bumper cars.
I mean like wtf
OCTAGON CONTROL FTW !!!!!
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Dude, it's hopeless. This is just a place to cheer for people, discussions are impossible. MMA is just entertainment at this point so treating it otherwise will just kill your spirit.
So just cheer fuckit. Wohoo.
I mean look at this dude
You thought he was going to tell you something like: "In round 4, at 2min30sec Jones hit him with a straight and that wobbled Dominick and then the exchange in minute.... " - WRONG.
He's off on a pro fighting is not war debate... and somehow got Wilder and Fury involved.
He doesn't have a train of thought, his shit is all bumper cars.
I mean like wtf
OCTAGON CONTROL FTW !!!!!
You need an aspirin or something fella? What would you like me to say exactly? People are really that upset Jones won to the point we are nitpicking over buzz words like "Winning the War" You want to go on shit shows like First Take, and argue to the point of a headache over these buzz words? This is not a complex manner. Jones won a close fight. That is all. If Reyes expected to win he needed to bring it home. He did not. Jones did what he does in close fights. He wins the last 2 rounds. Gus had him in more trouble than Reyes. Jones was bleeding bad from his eye, and had been tagged up by Gus's boxing for 3 rounds. But Jones dug deep and won rounds 4 and 5.. So Reyes should not have been shocked the cards went against him. He lost the last 2 rounds. It is a points system and the result is neither controversial nor shocking. And no, it is not war.. Again buzz word and stupid talking point..
