What best defines complexity for you?

[RetiredSlave]

Im fairly certain humanity is the most common thing Ive heard described as complex. Both on an indvidual level concerning our biology and minds, and on a group level concerning civilization and its many facets. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing. I think things only become complex with specific details. Is everything kind of simple? Simple Jack, whacha thank?

 

[DrVanNostrand]

Threads with no replies PERple me
Not sure if they are complex

 

[Phr3121]

Quantum Physics...

 

[RetiredSlave]

Quantum Physics...

Any particular reason?

 

[Phr3121]

Any particular reason?

Mathematical equations, how the atom works, and theories...

 

[Hans Gercmiov]

Quantum mechanics, certainly. After all the books I've read on it, the very rudimentary understanding I have of it I find impossible to articulate to anyone else.

I forget which physicist said, paraphrasing, there are 2 things you should know about quantum mechanics: 1. It is the most experimentally successful theory in the history of science, and 2. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Frank Zappa's The Black Page

 

[ScarfaceJr]

Real history.

Between the invasions and usurpation of lands, to the stolen identities, to all the book burnings, to the genocides, to the moving people off their land to a new land, even to a certain group of people hiding their identity/ origins, real history can be a lil complex.

 

[tonysmasseuse]

J.S. Bach. Nature. Consciousness.

In my personal life i experience it - on many levels - as, seemingly, a paradox:
For example i long for simplicity, but my drive is inevitably towards complexity. I dream about having simple relationships but i'm attracted to complex people.
My own life is so simple it seems completely abstract to most people (they experience it as complex).
That's the paradoxical part.

Where the 'seemingly' part comes in is upon further inspection, there is no difference (and no paradox) between (ultimate) simplicity and (ultimate) complexity because they share a quintessential characteristic: They are both indefinable, unfathomable except in a purely experiential realm.

These can seem like complex musings, but at the same time they are universal, and here since the dawn of time, so also imbued with simplicity.

These are just drive-by thoughts. I haven't got a clue. But my personal experience is simplicity and complexity, ultimately, is the same thing. That 'sameness' is where they either make sense, or lose all meaning - depending on temperament.

 

[genecop]

Life and mankind are very simple, we are just to close to things to be objective, that’s why we throw around words like complex and evolved. In reality we are predictable apes..

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Nicholas Cage

 

[Organic Damage]

J.S. Bach. Nature. Consciousness.

In my personal life i experience it - on many levels - as, seemingly, a paradox:
For example i long for simplicity, but my drive is inevitably towards complexity. I dream about having simple relationships but i'm attracted to complex people.
My own life is so simple it seems completely abstract to most people (they experience it as complex).
That's the paradoxical part.

Where the 'seemingly' part comes in is upon further inspection, there is no difference (and no paradox) between (ultimate) simplicity and (ultimate) complexity because they share a quintessential characteristic: They are both indefinable, unfathomable except in a purely experiential realm.

These can seem like complex musings, but at the same time they are universal, and here since the dawn of time, so also imbued with simplicity.

These are just drive-by thoughts. I haven't got a clue. But my personal experience is simplicity and complexity, ultimately, is the same thing. That 'sameness' is where they either make sense, or lose all meaning - depending on temperament.

I think that's what they call 'elegance' in mathematics or computer science. An elegant algorithm or equation can express a complex problem in a seemingly simple, almost obvious seeming way. But producing results like that takes a degree of genius in being able to understand the relationship between many disparate moving parts.

I kind of feel like if we ever figure out what "consciousness" is, the mechanism will end up being something elegant, and not just some critical mass of unfathomably complex neural interactions.

 

[minute bull]

I get lost a lot in my apartment complex.

What is complicated to me is how stuff like James Joyce, turntablism, and other non-hallucinogens can seem to alter reality by noodling with how you perceive it. Some change, or leaning, comes only through intense focus, study, and practice and after ten years or ten thousand man hours you're a different person who has earned a new perspective and outlook. Other changes happen in a snap, or simply wash over you like a sort of anti-trauma.

Change is complicated.

 

[deviake]

I'm not sure how to answer the question.

I guess I'd say everything is complex when you break it down. But it's also simple. It took me several minutes to think of that fairly simple response. Is that complex?

 

[tonysmasseuse]

I think that's what they call 'elegance' in mathematics or computer science. An elegant algorithm or equation can express a complex problem in a seemingly simple, almost obvious seeming way. But producing results like that takes a degree of genius in being able to understand the relationship between many disparate moving parts.

I kind of feel like if we ever figure out what "consciousness" is, the mechanism will end up being something elegant, and not just some critical mass of unfathomably complex neural interactions.

Thanks for that - first time i hear this term 'elegance', in relation to abstracts.

I want to understand these things more, and as i have neither the brain nor the language to pursue such enquiries (it's always been an intuitive and experiential process for me) i'm grateful for all info, and specific words, such as you have just provided.

How come you are familiar with such a quaint term as 'an elegant algorithm'...

The way you described it, as
"An elegant algorithm or equation can express a complex problem in a seemingly simple, almost obvious seeming way. But producing results like that takes a degree of genius in being able to understand the relationship between many disparate moving parts"
reminded me of this micro-poem by he Italian poet Ungaretti:
M'Illumino D'Immensso
meaning something like 'I'm illuminated by The Immense', or 'I illuminate myself with The Immense'. The seeming paradox again, ode to complexity, simply expressed, ALL complexity in 7 syllables.

All my (feeble) lines of examination and attempts to understand these things begins with and ends at 'consciousness' too and i've sort of always associated it with and confined it to individual efforts in metaphysics, philosophy or mysticism. And in art, of course.
It would be incredible, if there could be a broader 'scientific' understanding of consciousness itself, in our lifetime.

 

[TheMadThinker]

I feel like humans are not nearly as complex as we would like to think we are. 99% of all the things we do are still driven by the need for sex, shelter, and food like the rest of the animals on the planet. The more we step away from our hunter gatherer nature the more mental distress and societal perversion occurs.

I also hate how people think that things now are so much more complex than past times. We are basically chasing the same problems that people had 4000 years ago the only thing that has changed is technology.

 

[TheMadThinker]

Real history.

Between the invasions and usurpation of lands, to the stolen identities, to all the book burnings, to the genocides, to the moving people off their land to a new land, even to a certain group of people hiding their identity/ origins, real history can be a lil complex.

Strong man sees weak man and finds no danger in taking all of his shit.

 

[Stoic1]

Moderators on Sherdog.

 

[Joe265]

Im fairly certain humanity is the most common thing Ive heard described as complex. Both on an indvidual level concerning our biology and minds, and on a group level concerning civilization and its many facets. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing. I think things only become complex with specific details. Is everything kind of simple? Simple Jack, whacha thank?

It’s simple when you stop trying to dissect everything into separate distinct parts. This is why global society and our education system is failing, imo. We’re doing it wrong, and not learning from precious civilizations like Ancient Egypt where life itself was everything. Our primitive society has life revolving around the consumption of lifeless things.

 

[Organic Damage]

Thanks for that - first time i hear this term 'elegance', in relation to abstracts.

I want to understand these things more, and as i have neither the brain nor the language to pursue such enquiries (it's always been an intuitive and experiential process for me) i'm grateful for all info, and specific words, such as you have just provided.

How come you are familiar with such a quaint term as 'an elegant algorithm'...

The way you described it, as
"An elegant algorithm or equation can express a complex problem in a seemingly simple, almost obvious seeming way. But producing results like that takes a degree of genius in being able to understand the relationship between many disparate moving parts"
reminded me of this micro-poem by he Italian poet Ungaretti:
M'Illumino D'Immensso
meaning something like 'I'm illuminated by The Immense', or 'I illuminate myself with The Immense'. The seeming paradox again, ode to complexity, simply expressed, ALL complexity in 7 syllables.

All my (feeble) lines of examination and attempts to understand these things begins with and ends at 'consciousness' too and i've sort of always associated it with and confined it to individual efforts in metaphysics, philosophy or mysticism. And in art, of course.
It would be incredible, if there could be a broader 'scientific' understanding of consciousness itself, in our lifetime.

Well I studied computer science at university, but I can't say I was ever much of a programmer.

Fitting you mention a poet, since poetry is another place where you see that idea of elegance play out. I have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who can express ideas or emotions that would take me pages in a few lines or stanzas.