What are the rules on "illegal substances" if ...

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by knight, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. knight

    knight Purple Belt

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    you have to take it for legit medical reasons?

    I'm a mod on frankshamrock.com and a while back we had a discussion about steroids, HGH, etc. A fellow mod's dad wanted to fight MMA and he takes HGH for medical reasons.

    The following is cut and pasted from the discussion:

    Fellow mod:" My Father in Law has real low Test and has to take it. Should he not be allowed to fight cause of that?"

    Me:"That is a good point. I guess it depends on the reason, your dad needs it for medical reasons and has a doctor's pass for it. Blood doping (injecting donor red bloodcells) is illegal in competition yet if you have chronic PRCA and need a bloodtransfusion every two weeks its' not illegal. I've heard rumors that hyperbaria probably is getting banned in the future however if you have an auto immune disease called "myasthenia gravis" you need it and have a free pass. I don't know the exact rules of the commission but if he wants to fight he should get himself well informed and get it on paper signed and all. When Sylvester Stallone was caught in Australia when he was promoting Rambo with HGH they called it "illegal substances" so you never know."

    What are the facts (and of course your opinions:icon_chee) on this subject?
     
  2. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

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    Not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what are different leagues' (UFC, Strikeforce, etc.) rules are on the matter? Pretty sure you have the wrong forum here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  3. xilliun

    xilliun Brown Belt

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    If you have medical reasoning with evidence to support the claim from a doctor as to why they're using the medication, it should be allowed i'd imagine. If he starts MMA training he can always just ask his trainer if it's allowed or not, they'd have a better understanding of the local rules.
     
  4. pliftkl

    pliftkl Green Belt

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    There are generally accepted normal ranges for testosterone in the body. If you are taking HRT and your testosterone levels are in the normal range, then it shouldn't be an issue. If you are taking HRT at age 45 and your testosterone levels are twice the normal range of someone half your age, then you aren't doing HRT anymore.

    Doctor's note or recommendation is really irrelevant. Anyone over 30 can get themselves a "doctor's recommendation" for HRT with little or no effort. There are HRT clinics that specialize this, and they aren't particularly picky about whether you have the symptoms to get the treatment that you are willing to pay for.
     
  5. MuyThaiFighter

    MuyThaiFighter Orange Belt

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    There is no "standard" measure for low test. What one doc considers low test, another would not. I'm guessing if guys can't take things such as Ritalin to treat ADHD and still fight in the UFC, they wouldn't be able to take supplemental testosterone even if by prescription. Anyone can find a doctor that will prescribe them test. I would think they would fall under performance enhancing drugs.

    That being said, I have talked to an "anti-aging" doctor and he told me bioidentical hormones would not show up on a drug test. No idea if that's true or not. But...I don't think bioidentical hormones would provide a significant performance advantage.
     
  6. Pipistrello

    Pipistrello Banned Banned

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    godammit shamrock i thought you said you stopped taking that shit.
     
  7. onezendad

    onezendad Blue Belt

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    If you legitimately have to take HGH to live, you should probably look at other activities than starting to fight MMA.
     
  8. TMMAray

    TMMAray Blue Belt

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    A couple things to address:

    1. To the specific situation mentioned, it's sort of a non-issue, because HGH is not detected by urinalysis, so unless he was actually caught taking it by the commission (as in they saw him do it), it ought not to come up.

    2. Generally speaking though, you are not allowed to take banned substances, regardless of prescription. Even if 10 doctors say you need something, if it's banned, you will get in trouble for it. The obvious reason for this is that if a doctor's recommendation/prescription allowed you to take a banned substance, then everyone would just have a doctor's recommendation for whatever banned substances they wanted to take.
     
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    ^That's the right answer.

    There's a lot of general confusion on the difference between "illegal" and "banned in Professional Sports." This is due to media not being specific in their terminology. If something is "illegal" in MMA, for example, that doesn't mean it's against the law. Most things on banned substances lists are perfectly legal with a prescription. So they're legal, but that doesn't mean they're allowed by rules of Athletic Commissions.

    Most athletes who get busted for gear DO have prescriptions, that's how they get them from Doctors in the first-place. Recent litigation is law-makers deciding (and rather ignorantly) that the prescriptions are unwarranted and thus, fraudulent.
     
  10. MuyThaiFighter

    MuyThaiFighter Orange Belt

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    I'd have to question a doc that prescribes HGH for low test. Not even in the same ballpark.
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    HGH is typically prescribed for recovery by Doctors, or actual low GH output. Dr. Margaret Goodman (former NVSAC Doc, Neurologist, and current member of the Medical Advisory Board for the NVSAC) recently wrote an article about how athletics effects GH output and made a strong argument that it shouldn't be on the banned substances list.
     
  12. pliftkl

    pliftkl Green Belt

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    Link? I'd like to read it. I searched, and her name is commonly enough referenced (even when linked to HGH that I'm not seeing an obvious article). Apologies if I'm missing an obvious google.

    I did find a link to a 2007 SI article in which she is quoted as saying that HGH is widely abused by athletes.

    SI.com - More Sports - SI: Holyfield allegedly received steroids, HGH via alias - Thursday March 1, 2007 3:48PM
     
  13. knight

    knight Purple Belt

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    I also asked this question on Joel Jamieson's / EZA's forum and this is his reply:

    "As far as I am aware, though I am not an expert on this, if you are taking a medication due to a legitimate medical need as prescribed by a physician, you should be able to get cleared to fight. The commissions will require the prescription and when you fill out the application for a license they ask you to fill out any and all medications you are currently taking in the first place. If there is any question, I'd contact the commission directly ahead of time to ask. It's also going to vary by country, i.e. Japan could care less what you're taking the most part."
     
  14. dza76wutang

    dza76wutang Black Belt

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    I thought HGH was undetectable. Did they find a way to detect it recently?
     
  15. knight

    knight Purple Belt

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    According to Bas Rutten it's detectable but it's very expensive. Don't quote me on this but I believe he said in interviews it was around $80.000,-:eek:
     
  16. MuyThaiFighter

    MuyThaiFighter Orange Belt

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    I think there is a blood test that detects HGH.

    Also, didn't Ryan Jensen have a 'script for Adderall a few years ago and wasn't able to fight?
     
  17. Rocked

    Rocked Brown Belt

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    Yeah he did, the Tennessee Commission didn't allow him to fight. I don't think he even took the scales after cutting weight and was medically cleared.
     

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