West Virginia teacher strike

[Limeade]

http://wvpublic.org/post/west-virginia-teacher-work-stoppage-hits-pivotal-day-monday

anyone live in west virginia? Neither side has a viable long term option. I'm very concerned about keeping spending down and not a big fan of one size fit all government especially on local issues. Currently, the state legislature sets the pay scale. So I say let's deregulate and have less government and more school choice.

Get rid of statewide teaching requirements and continuing education and instead let individual county school districts decide if a candidate is qualified or not. Let individual school district negotiate wages rather than be forced to pay some big brother rate. Together, these that will increase local control wile increasing the supply of teachers and let the market drive down prices. Also it gives more freedom at the local level for officials who want to priorities other services such as public safety or business development. Over time, this will highlight the top performering schools and allow counties to compete for students based off instructor quality.

 

[Byron Carter]

Public school is trash.

Most teachers shouldn't be teaching.

School choice and vouchers are the only solution.

 

[luckyshot]

Get rid of statewide teaching requirements and continuing education and instead let individual county school districts decide if a candidate is qualified or not. Let individual school district negotiate wages rather than be forced to pay some big brother rate. Together, these that will increase local control wile increasing the supply of teachers and let the market drive down prices. Also it gives more freedom at the local level for officials who want to priorities other services such as public safety or business development. Over time, this will highlight the top performering schools and allow counties to compete for students based off instructor quality.

The point is that every child is supposed to have access to qualified instructors... the Supreme Court has ruled that access to FAPE (fair and appropriate public education) it is a right, not a privilege, which is why states have teacher requirements in the first place.

Now, if you think those requirements are not producing good enough instructors, then you should be arguing that they need to be more stringent, rather than getting rid of them.

You can't just say, "Eh, take away requirements, let 'em compete, there will be some winners and some losers." That's basically saying, "I am going to willingly violate some kids' legal rights."

(Not to mention, would you ever get rid of training for fire departments or police departments and just "let them compete" with each other?)

Also, lol at "paying some big brother rate." Teachers in WV currently average $45k per year. How much less do you want to pay them, lol? These are not greedy people. The fact that teachers haven't been on strike EVERY year in some states proves that.

http://time.com/5176094/west-virginia-teacher-strike/

Public school is trash.

Most teachers shouldn't be teaching.

School choice and vouchers are the only solution.

Public school is "trash," and "most teachers shouldn't be teaching"... but if you just give everyone vouchers and allow corporations to siphon off our tax money, it will fix the problem... OK.

 

[Byron Carter]

The point is that every child is supposed to have access

Equality of opportunity doesn't mean equality of outcome.

You have to let some of the shit-eaters fail, drop-out, and be expelled.

It's to the point where a highschool diploma means nothing anymore, it's basically a participation trophy.

Nikolas De Jesus Cruz almost had a fucking highschool diploma, and that kid is a barely functioning psychopathic retard.

 

[ChainFlow]

Equality of opportunity doesn't mean equality of outcome.

You have to let some of the shit-eaters fail, drop-out, and be expelled.

It's to the point where a highschool diploma means nothing anymore, it's basically a participation trophy.

Nikolas De Jesus Cruz almost had a fucking highschool diploma, and that kid is a barely functioning psychopathic retard.

How does that address what he said whatsoever?

He’s talking about equality of opportunity (all students get good teachers and a good education) and you go on a rant about how lots of kids don’t deserve education, or something?

 

[Fedorable]

I liked the all children left behind act.

 

[HomerThompson]

Public school is trash.

Most teachers shouldn't be teaching.

School choice and vouchers are the only solution.

What a profoundly ignorant comment. I'm ultra surprised, btw.

 

[Swing]

Public school is "trash," but if you just give everyone vouchers and allow corporations to syphon off their tax money, it will fix the problem... OK.

It's bizarre to me that so many people think private schools are the answer when teachers at private schools generally have significantly less to do in terms of proving their qualifications as teachers.

 

[Prime Rib]

What a profoundly ignorant comment. I'm ultra surprised, btw.

Yeah that dickhole just wants to further privatize and defund public education. Fuck him.

 

[luckyshot]

Equality of opportunity doesn't mean equality of outcome.

You have to let some of the shit-eaters fail, drop-out, and be expelled.

It's to the point where a highschool diploma means nothing anymore, it's basically a participation trophy.

Nikolas De Jesus Cruz almost had a fucking highschool diploma, and that kid is a barely functioning psychopathic retard.

I agree with this to an extent, but public education is also a public service.

In addition to bright, normal functioning kids, Down Syndrome kids, autistic kids and just plain stupid kids also need an environment where they can go everyday to be socialized and taught life skills.

There are definitely some kids who just suck. I'm not sure what you do with them. You can't just send them to "shitty kid island," unfortunately... society still has to deal with them in one way or another.

You can't be naive enough to think that a voucher will somehow fix this.

 

[Byron Carter]

It's bizarre to me that so many people think private schools are the answer when teachers at private schools generally have significantly less to do in terms of proving their qualifications as teachers.

Well. For one, they can be fired at a whim. There is no tenure.

In a private school setting, you answer directly to your customers (the parents).

It's called accountability.

 

[Swing]

Well. For one, they can be fired at a whim. There is no tenure.

In a private school setting, you answer directly to your customers (the parents).

It's called accountability.

It's not that hard to fire a teacher at a public school either. Certainly not if you're talking about newer teachers. I've seen it happen.

 

[Byron Carter]

I agree with this to an extent, but public education is also a public service.

In addition to bright, normal functioning kids, Down Syndrome kids, autistic kids and just plain stupid kids also need an environment where they can go everyday to be socialized and taught life skills.

There are definitely some kids who just suck. I'm not sure what you do with them. You can't send a shitty kid to "shitty kid land," unfortunately... society still has to deal with them in one way or another. You can't be naive enough to think that a voucher will somehow fix this.

No. Although "Shitty kid island" sounds like a terrific idea.. what I'm saying is that schools should be competitive. If you want to go to the best school, you have to perform.

I want a merit based system, in addition to vouchers - basically meaning the best and brightest kids, regardless of their birth place or color of their skin, can get the best education.

Instead, what we have now is autistic kids going to school with down syndrome kids, going to school with gang-bangers, going to school with sociopaths, going to school with normal kids. It's a melting pot. I'm suggesting we funnel the gifted kids, to better schools, and allow the kids who need special help - to get it. Including the disciplinary ones. A kid who is 14 and involved in a gang and constantly in trouble at school needs a completely different environment from a kid who is operating on an advanced college level and ready be a doctor.

 

[luckyshot]

No. Although "Shitty kid island" sounds like a terrific idea.. what I'm saying is that schools should be competitive. If you want to go to the best school, you have to perform.

I want a merit based system, in addition to vouchers - basically meaning the best and brightest kids, regardless of their birth place or color of their skin, can get the best education.

Instead, what we have now is autistic kids going to school with down syndrome kids, going to school with gang-bangers, going to school with sociopaths, going to school with normal kids. It's a melting pot. I'm suggesting we funnel the gifted kids, to better schools, and allow the kids who need special help - to get it. Including the disciplinary ones. A kid who is 14 and involved in a gang and constantly in trouble at school needs a completely different environment from a kid who is operating on an advanced college level and ready be a doctor.

OK... but all that would argue for more schools... more individualized programs for students... more specialized training for teachers... in a word, more investment.

I'm not seeing how how waiving vouchers around like a magic wand does any of the things you talk about. It just takes funds aways from public schools, leaving them to clean up all the shit.

 

[ChainFlow]

No. Although "Shitty kid island" sounds like a terrific idea.. what I'm saying is that schools should be competitive. If you want to go to the best school, you have to perform.

I want a merit based system, in addition to vouchers - basically meaning the best and brightest kids, regardless of their birth place or color of their skin, can get the best education.

Instead, what we have now is autistic kids going to school with down syndrome kids, going to school with gang-bangers, going to school with sociopaths, going to school with normal kids. It's a melting pot. I'm suggesting we funnel the gifted kids, to better schools, and allow the kids who need special help - to get it. Including the disciplinary ones. A kid who is 14 and involved in a gang and constantly in trouble at school needs a completely different environment from a kid who is operating on an advanced college level and ready be a doctor.

Didn’t you just say you wanted equality of opportunity?

How would kids who overperform early getting funneled to top-talent schools (and then building on their lead vs slower-starters) result in equal opportunity? Why not make sure that all kids actually have equal opportunity by providing good talent (and compensating it fairly) to all schools’ teaching staffs?

It’s a lot easier to switch to taking AP and college prep classes within a school than transferring schools because you suddenly start displaying academic proficiency.

 

[Swing]

No. Although "Shitty kid island" sounds like a terrific idea.. what I'm saying is that schools should be competitive. If you want to go to the best school, you have to perform.

I want a merit based system, in addition to vouchers - basically meaning the best and brightest kids, regardless of their birth place or color of their skin, can get the best education.

Instead, what we have now is autistic kids going to school with down syndrome kids, going to school with gang-bangers, going to school with sociopaths, going to school with normal kids. It's a melting pot. I'm suggesting we funnel the gifted kids, to better schools, and allow the kids who need special help - to get it. Including the disciplinary ones. A kid who is 14 and involved in a gang and constantly in trouble at school needs a completely different environment from a kid who is operating on an advanced college level and ready be a doctor.

Gifted kids, so much as that is even meaningful as many of the gifted kids that come through my classes are pretty unremarkable, take classes with other like minded students. They aren't sitting in the same class as kids who have trouble adding fractions.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

It's bizarre to me that so many people think private schools are the answer when teachers at private schools generally have significantly less to do in terms of proving their qualifications as teachers.

Offsetting the higher pay in public schools might not be worth it for the hassle you allude to and working conditions such as smaller classes and less accommodating of bad behavior. Do you have something that shows public employees are indeed more qualified?

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Well. For one, they can be fired at a whim. There is no tenure.

In a private school setting, you answer directly to your customers (the parents).

It's called accountability.

I pretty much agree with this

No. Although "Shitty kid island" sounds like a terrific idea.. what I'm saying is that schools should be competitive. If you want to go to the best school, you have to perform.

I want a merit based system, in addition to vouchers - basically meaning the best and brightest kids, regardless of their birth place or color of their skin, can get the best education.

Instead, what we have now is autistic kids going to school with down syndrome kids, going to school with gang-bangers, going to school with sociopaths, going to school with normal kids. It's a melting pot. I'm suggesting we funnel the gifted kids, to better schools, and allow the kids who need special help - to get it. Including the disciplinary ones. A kid who is 14 and involved in a gang and constantly in trouble at school needs a completely different environment from a kid who is operating on an advanced college level and ready be a doctor.

If properly funded I wouldn't be opposed to this either.

 

[ScottE]

Thread starts off with talking about tactics to drive prices down. Prices in this case being teachers wages.

Teacher wages down... to fucking where? They already suck.

But let's make the double as armed security too.

 

[Swing]

Offsetting the higher pay in public schools might not be worth it for the hassle you allude to and working conditions such as smaller classes and less accommodating of bad behavior. Do you have something that shows public employees are indeed more qualified?

Public school teachers have to get certified. Teachers at private institutions don't have to unless the private school requires it. Certification requires that a teacher pass some tests to demonstrate competency in the subject area that teacher will be teaching.

There's obviously more to teaching than the ability to do well on an exam, but it's something that I think everyone leading a classroom should have to demonstrate.