Were Pride Fighters Overrated?

Well, in Brazilian foruns, I saw a time ago a thread about certain fighters fighting better at ring than a cage.

Almost every PRIDE fighters today at UFC were oustanding ring fighters but too bad cage fighters.

Barnett, Arlovski, Aoki and Werdum are exceptions today. Big Nog, Hunt, Wand, Hendo and Shogun are betters before, but the age came.

Fedor lost 3 of 4 fights at the cage (at Strikeforce). Gomi never repeated the PRIDE carreer. And have a lot of fighters that I don't remember when was the last time they fought at a cage, like Kharitonov, Kazuo Misaki, Denis Kang, Yoshida...

I don't know if it turns PRIDE figters overrated, but it's a new point of vision... maybe?
 
The "big named" Pride fighters got to be big named in Pride because they were in their primes in Pride. By the time they got to the UFC years later they were already on the decline and now forced to adjust to a different set of rules as well as the cage. Check and see how many top UFC fighters from the mid 2000s were doing after the Pride buyout, while meantime Pride fighters were winning UFC belts.

And when we talk about wear and tear, this isn't the current UFC standard of 1-2 fights per year. Pride fighters were fighting 3-6 times per year.
 
The Nogs, Shoguns, Hendos, Fedors and Wands are barely hanging on

but the Sylvias, Franklins, Liddells, Hughes, Sherks have been gone for a while.
 
You can't blame Crocop to lose in UFC when he was fighting guys like Lebanner in K1 in 1996 while Cain Velasquez, JDS and Jon Jones were still pissing in their bed or just got their first pubic hair.
The guy already had like 45 K1 fights and 30 MMA fights when he came to UFC
Same with Fedor and Nog, those guys were killing each other from the RINGS days, Nog took a beating against a prime bob sapp.
 
No. They're not overated. Just ask the UFC top guys at the time Tito Ortiz (Lil'Nog), Chuck Liddel (Page and Shogun), Tim Sylvia (NOG), Randy Couture (NOG)...Father time is so cruel...
 
Are guys like Koscheck, Thompson, Jake Shields, Fitch and Okami and countless others overrated because they left the UFC and went to other promotions and started losing?

Is Bellator, WSoF, etc better than the UFC? It's called getting old, being out of your prime or not being able to adapt to a new style or environment.

Age doesn't make much of a different if you've been fighting at a high level for 10+ years. There are very few guys that make 10 years before they start to fall off no matter what their age.
 
ForbiddenSun said:
I loved watching Pride but in retrospect were the Pride fighters we loved overrated? Aside from Anderson Silva and a late entry from Werdum, the big named Pride Fighters who came to the UFC didn't fare well. Below are their records in the UFC. I don't think we can categorically say everyone was past their prime back in 2007 when most came over, as most were just around 30 years old, some younger, some just a bit older.

What do you think we're the biggest factors? The UFC competition? The Octagon vs the Ring? Drug Testing? Different continent? In Pride there was an air of invincibility and mystique around these guys and then when they came to the UFC they just seemed mortal. Still love them though.

UFC Records:
Big Nog - 5-6
Cro Cop 4-6
Wand 4-5
Lil Nog 4-4
Henderson 5-8
Shogun 7-8
Overeem 4-3
Rampage 7-5
Click to expand...

Werdum a considered Pride FC fighter at Sherdog is HW UFC CHAMP the best fighter in the world a PRide FC fighter
 
ForbiddenSun said:
I loved watching Pride but in retrospect were the Pride fighters we loved overrated? Aside from Anderson Silva and a late entry from Werdum, the big named Pride Fighters who came to the UFC didn't fare well. Below are their records in the UFC. I don't think we can categorically say everyone was past their prime back in 2007 when most came over, as most were just around 30 years old, some younger, some just a bit older.

What do you think we're the biggest factors? The UFC competition? The Octagon vs the Ring? Drug Testing? Different continent? In Pride there was an air of invincibility and mystique around these guys and then when they came to the UFC they just seemed mortal. Still love them though.

UFC Records:
Big Nog - 5-6
Cro Cop 4-6
Wand 4-5
Lil Nog 4-4
Henderson 5-8
Shogun 7-8
Overeem 4-3
Rampage 7-5
Click to expand...

UFC Champs/Former Champs after 2007

Liddel - 1-5
Randy - 5-3
Ortiz - 3-6-1
Tim Sylvia 8-8-1
Bj Penn 6-6-1

Age/New Breeds/Styles/Wear and Tear/Training techniques
 
ForbiddenSun said:
I loved watching Pride but in retrospect were the Pride fighters we loved overrated? Aside from Anderson Silva and a late entry from Werdum, the big named Pride Fighters who came to the UFC didn't fare well. Below are their records in the UFC. I don't think we can categorically say everyone was past their prime back in 2007 when most came over, as most were just around 30 years old, some younger, some just a bit older.

What do you think we're the biggest factors? The UFC competition? The Octagon vs the Ring? Drug Testing? Different continent? In Pride there was an air of invincibility and mystique around these guys and then when they came to the UFC they just seemed mortal. Still love them though.

UFC Records:
Big Nog - 5-6
Cro Cop 4-6
Wand 4-5
Lil Nog 4-4
Henderson 5-8
Shogun 7-8
Overeem 4-3
Rampage 7-5
Click to expand...

2007 was the last PrideFC event.

For comparison why don't you list the record of the 'UFC fighters' who were Top 10 in 2006/2007?

Tim Sylvia
Brandon Vera
Andrei Arlovski
Randy Couture
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Babalu Sobral
Jason Lambert
Jermemy Horn
...
 
Were Strikeforce Fighters Underrated?

Thread: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2...0-win-vs-ufc-60-ufc-belts-ronda-wmma-3046555/


Strikeforce fighters vs UFC: 90-61-1
(Only full-fledged SF fighters; fought on the Main Card of Major Events; e.g. Jake Shields, Fabricio Werdum, Shane del Rosario, Nah-shon Burrell)

Strikeforce Minor Leaguers: 28-37-1
SF Prelimers: 20-26-0
(e.g. Bobby Green, Yoel Romero, Quinn Mulhern, Josh Cholish)
​
SF Challengers: 8-11-1
(e.g. Bobby Voelker, Shawn Jordan, Milton Vieria)
​

Zuffaforce (post-2012 debuts): 3-11
(e.g. Bristol Marunde, Nandor Guelmino, Estevan Payan, Adriano Martins)

Strikeforce leftovers/others: 18-19-0
(e.g. Arlovski, Kawajiri, Chris Cope, Dustin Ortiz, Ron Stalling -- not directly joining the UFC after SF)

note: Since Shields>Hendo as the line of demarcation between SF/UFC


Of the weight classes that both the UFC and Strikeforce had -- LW to HW -- "Strikeforce guys" own 60% of the Titles, 3 of 5 of the 'Belts.'

picture.php
 
Also,

How many Pride fighters fought other former Pride fighters in the UFC.

I mean can you really count Shogun vs Lil-Nog 2 as an example of how Pride fighter aren't faring as well because Lil'Nog lost in the UFC again?
 
While they were at least as good as UFC fighters, I think some people think they were some kind of Gods. Most of PRIDE's champions have had success in America, but besides A. Silva few have dominated and some like Fedor and Cro cop were disappointing when they came here. I think the reason partly was there was no steroid testing in Japan, so when those guys came here and couldn't juice anymore, they weren't as large or explosive here as they were there. Also, many more Japanese fighters in PRIDE, and we all know how well Japanese fighters do in the UFC. So there were more easy{?} fights in Japan to pad the record. Especially in the heavier weight classes. Don't mean to insult Japanese fighters, many are tough as hell, but there record in America is not good.
 
Looking at the records of Nog/Wand/CroCop/Henderson/Rampage... That's like looking at how Josh Koscheck goes in Bellator to see if UFC fighters are overated...?

Anyway... the biggest thing that was 'overrated' was UFC fighters compared to Strikeforce and WEC fighters
 
COBRA03 said:
While they were at least as good as UFC fighters, I think some people think they were some kind of Gods. Most of PRIDE's champions have had success in America, but besides A. Silva few have dominated and some like Fedor and Cro cop were disappointing when they came here. I think the reason partly was there was no steroid testing in Japan, so when those guys came here and couldn't juice anymore, they weren't as large or explosive here as they were there. Also, many more Japanese fighters in PRIDE, and we all know how well Japanese fighters do in the UFC. So there were more easy{?} fights in Japan to pad the record. Especially in the heavier weight classes. Don't mean to insult Japanese fighters, many are tough as hell, but there record in America is not good.
Click to expand...

I find this hilarious when you look back and see how bad the testing actually was for UFC fighters. They would cycle, and only the dumbest motherfuckers would get caught.lol

Wasn't it Jeff Monson who admitted once in an interview before a fight that he was currently using...But he would be clean for the test.lol
 
No, all those guys came to UFC after Pride. All those guys were in wars. Come to the UFC and fight younger guys, of course they are going to lose.

Don't forget Liddell, UFC's golden boy got iced in Pride.
 
CoffeeAndBeer said:
2007 was the last PrideFC event.

For comparison why don't you list the record of the 'UFC fighters' who were Top 10 in 2006/2007?

Tim Sylvia
Brandon Vera
Andrei Arlovski
Randy Couture
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Babalu Sobral
Jason Lambert
Jermemy Horn
...
Click to expand...

With the exception of AA(and I don't think anyone predicted that coming four years ago)not one of them still fights in the UFC. There are however PrideFC fighters still active in the Org.
 
Ozymandias said:
No, all those guys came to UFC after Pride. All those guys were in wars. Come to the UFC and fight younger guys, of course they are going to lose.

Don't forget Liddell, UFC's golden boy got iced in Pride.
Click to expand...

I kind of remember them putting Chuck in there because he wasn't the Golden Boy, Tito was champ, and he did't exactly get "iced" he lost to Page. A very capable and dangerous fighter at that time.
 
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