Werdum has submitted the two greatest HWs of all time

He already beat him once... Out of two fights lol

I think in a rematch Werdum takes it. He's got more confidence in his striking now than ever. Just no more butt scoots. :icon_lol:
 
Big Nog beat Werdum convincingly in his prime. Just saying.

Prime Fedor would've cut through Werdum like a knife through butter.

If anything, the 2nd fight between Nog and Werdum is a better measuring stick... I mean, if you are going to use the excuse of 'Prime Nog beat Werdum the first time around' then it is also fair to say back then Werdum was very FAR away from his own prime. he didn't even train MMA as a whole, lol! very green in all areas. plus, BOTH at their prime = Werdum far better grappler.

also, Werdum was the one who ended Fedor's streak. no one was betting on him. its so easy to use the 'prime' excuse now...
 
One fighter has more submissions than another, therefore he must be a better better submission fighter regardless of anything else. That was your premise. Are you now changing it?

What does Fedor's GOAT status have to do with your flawed argument?

You are the one bringing up Travis Fulton, that is what is flawed. I'm telling you that just stating Werdum is the greatest submission artist in MMA history is not enough to convince me. Fedor is quite possibly the greatest fighter of all time and in fact has way more submissions than Werdum. How does that make you feel?
 
You are the one bringing up Travis Fulton, that is what is flawed. I'm telling you that just stating Werdum is the greatest submission artist in MMA history is not enough to convince me. Fedor is quite possibly the greatest fighter of all time and in fact has way more submissions than Werdum. How does that make you feel?
If makes me feel like I am arguing with a child that has Down's syndrome.
 
Post prime Fedor got careless looking for the finish. If they had a grappling match I would give advantage to Fedor by being quicker. Armbar boom.

Werdum is top 10 of all time for sure though.

Dude, are you insane? Fedor's a great grappler, but you think he'd beat Werdum in a pure grappling contest? Anything's possible, but to actually establish Fedor as the favorite is insane.
 
Watch his fight with Arlovski and go tell me that Werdum deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with any GOAT.

Losses matter when you're talking about the greatest, and how you lost is also important. No one considered Fedor defeated or Anderson legit beaten by Okami. Werdum has been involved in some spectacles and not the good kind.
 
Big Nog beat Werdum convincingly in his prime. Just saying.

Prime Fedor would've cut through Werdum like a knife through butter.

There was nothing "convincing" about that win. I'm not saying it was a robbery because I don't subscribe to the idea that every close fight is a robbery, but that decision could've gone either way. Werdum has improved a lot since then, too.

As for "prime Fedor" vs. Werdum, Fedor's loss to Werdum had nothing to do with his being past his prime unless you think his brain has deteriorated with time. Fedor knocked Werdum to the ground and jumped recklessly into his guard, which is something he's always done. He did it in his fights with Nog and got away with it. He did it in his fight with Werdum and paid for it by getting tapped out. His loss wasn't the result of being slow, his chin breaking or anything like that. He made a mental error and he paid the price. Would've happened if he were 25, 35 or 75.
 
There was nothing "convincing" about that win. I'm not saying it was a robbery because I don't subscribe to the idea that every close fight is a robbery, but that decision could've gone either way. Werdum has improved a lot since then, too.

As for "prime Fedor" vs. Werdum, Fedor's loss to Werdum had nothing to do with his being past his prime unless you think his brain has deteriorated with time. Fedor knocked Werdum to the ground and jumped recklessly into his guard, which is something he's always done. He did it in his fights with Nog and got away with it. He did it in his fight with Werdum and paid for it by getting tapped out. His loss wasn't the result of being slow, his chin breaking or anything like that. He made a mental error and he paid the price. Would've happened if he were 25, 35 or 75.

To add to this Werdum in pure BJJ is leagues and leagues above Nog, anyone who disagrees obviously doesnt train at all.

A 2004 Fedor who tried to play in a 2010 Werdums guard would most likely get submitted, if you dont believe me go watch Fedors second fight with Nog. He may (most likely would imo) have beat him if he kept it standing, but pretending hes a better grappler is just silly.
 
mma_fabriciowerdum_twitter62.jpg

Haha! Awesome pic.
 
Werdum is way better than he was at the time, I don't doubt that, but JDS is also a better fighter than when he fought Werdum.

Werdum's striking has improved but it's not on JDS's level, JDS wouldn't likely stop him in the first like before but I still think he'd knock him out.

I think Werdum's improved a lot more than JDS since their first fight and he was very fat in that fight, he's only bee KOed once and it was when he showed up in the worst shape of his career and he's fought a lot of really good strikers, I think a finish by JDS would be unlikely.

I think its 70/30 for JDS due to his better stand up and elite TDD and durability, though I think it's most likely to end in a decision regardless of who wins.

High level strikers and or guys with big KO power that failed to finish Werdum with strikes, Sergei, Overeem x2, Aleksander E., Fedor, Gonzaga x2, Andrei Arlovski, Bigfoot, Nelson, and Browne.

I don't think the first JDS fight proves anything other than you shouldn't show up in horrible shape against an unknown fighter because he just might be really good.
 
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You can't actually punch anyone either. All you can do is move your fist close to their body, you never actually touch them but the strong atomic forces repel one another, in effect when you punch someone they feel their flesh pushing against itself, not your fist.

When are we going to get this right and stop being so loose with our terminology?

0/10

I suggest you pick up a dictionary and look up the word "submit".

Submit
VERB (submits, submitting, submitted)

1 [NO OBJECT] Accept or yield to a superior force or to the authority or will of another person:
the original settlers were forced to submit to Bulgarian rule.

(submit oneself) Consent to undergo a certain treatment:
he submitted himself to a body search.

Agree to refer a matter to a third party for decision or adjudication:
the United States refused to submit to arbitration.
 
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If he finishes Velazquez, top-10 HW all time for sure, I would place him #7 or #8.
 
Only 2 and a half years passed since Cain's first fight with JDS. Not 4 years, and certainly not 5 years.

Furthermore, is beating a #2 HW twice worse than beating a #2 HW and a #10 HW?

Brock Lesnar was the last person he fought who wasn't Bigfoot or JDS in October 2010, 3 years and 8 months ago.
 
If he finishes Velazquez, top-10 HW all time for sure, I would place him #7 or #8.

Damn that's much lower than he should be if he finishes Cain. If he finishes Cain I would have him at 2. He would have the second best resume at HW ever, he would have wins over Fedor, Big Nog, Cain, and would have finally have gotten the belt that everyone overvalues. He should be around 7 or 8 right now or top 5.
 
Big Foot pounded out 2 of the best hw's of all time and we saw what happened to him when he fought Cain...
 
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