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Weightlifting technique

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Origins, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Origins Blue Belt

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    I was bored just now and found this video. I am sure it is nothing too special in terms of Olympic-level technique, but I happened to notice a couple of interesting things when I was watching this that I have never really paid attention to before.

    I noticed two things:

    1. All the lifters here were starting the second pull at about dong-level on both lifts. It also looked to me like the snatch had a slightly higher second pull starting point than the C&J. I never realized that one is supposed to start it so high. Is this typical for the full version of these lifts only or should the power version of the lifts be done this way, too?

    2. Especially on the snatch but also on the C&J I noticed that the lifters literally rammed the bar with their hips on the second pull. I have heard about "humping" the bar but have never been told to violate the bar so roughly. I imagine this would take a bit of practice to avoid smashing one's nuts.

    Many of you have probably already known these things for quite some time, but I am pretty new to this stuff. I have not previously read or heard either of these things being parts of correct oly technique. Thought I would share this moment of clarity with you all.
     
  2. Lard-ass Sodomizer

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    Its late, and I dont know if this makes any sense but this is what ive learned so far.

    About starting the second pull when it reaches the waist (in snatch) think more in terms of that a lifter produces most power when the barbell reaches halfway up the thigh.

    its more about trying to accelerate the bar all the way until triple extending the body. The bar usually touches just slightly above the pubic bone (in the soft tissue, lower abs) when you are triple extended BEFORE the arms starts to bend, in that position you have applied maximum force to the bar. Thereafter, the bar continues to travel up due to the momentum gained, while the lifter "pulls" himself under the bar.

    About the banging the bar at your hip, this is IMO due to straightening the body as fast as possible in both snatch and clean. From what Ive been learned, youre not supposed consciously bang the bar, but the bar almost inevatibly will touch/bang your waist on your way up, but the force should always directed up, not forward.
    If you bang to hard by forcing the hips forward, the bar swings away from your body, and the lift is failed.
     
  3. Origins Blue Belt

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    ^
    Cool, thanks.

    If I remember correctly, in SS Rippetoe basically says that the second pull should be started around 1/2-1/3 the way up the thigh. That is for the power clean, anyway. Obviously Rip isn't an Olympic coach, but it seems to me like the prevailing wisdom agrees with that. That's why I was pretty confused when I noticed how high they were starting the second pull, on the snatch especially. Should it be started higher on the snatch than on the clean?
     
  4. Big H Blue Belt

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    Try get Pendlay's attention to this thread, I saw one demo he done with some chick where he had her begin the second pull from near the crotch area tho i cant remember if that was just a particular drill he was doing.
     
  5. Lard-ass Sodomizer

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    hmm, not many chipping in on this subject.
    I guess there are different takes on the subject in the OL world, but this is what ive learned so far. Feel free to correct me, Im a beginner myself.

    The second pull, i.e. when the bar seems to be accelerating when halfway up the thigh/waist is mostly an illusion due to the body being straigthened out. This fools the eye that the bar suddenly accelerates, when in fact, the speed is slightly increased or maintained throughout the pull (both snatch and clean). Its the body that suddenly moves alot faster, only to a lesser extent, the barbell.

    A common error among beginners in OLY training are thinking too much of when to start the second pull. This leads to slowing down when passing the knees to brace themselves for the "second pull". This usually leads to humping the bar with bad trajectory and a failed lift as a result. Second pull can instead be thaught of as accelerating the barbell throughout the full motion, this way, second pull becomes second nature.


    The difference in where the barbell touches the body in snatch vs clean, are mostly due to wider grip in the snatch and only to a lesser extent body position.
    Due to wider grip in the snatch, the body extends when the barbell reaches the waist. Due to narrow grip in the clean, the body extends when the barbell reaches halfway up the thigh.
     
  6. flak Guest

    Thanks for posting this. I've been trying to teach myself the full Olympic version of the snatch, so this is helpful.

    Stuff I noticed --

    In C&J, everybody was using the squat clean, followed by the split jerk. Maybe that has proven to be the best combination for putting maximum weight over your head(?)

    The width of the stance for snatch varied, and some people started narrow and then moved their feet apart during the triple extension.
     
  7. flak Guest

    This is gold. Thanks.
     
  8. MASShole Get it?

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    Mostly its preference, but in order to move the most amount of weight, you definitely need the full squat when catching a clean. Split jerk vs squat jerk just depends. I always felt comfortable doing a squat jerk as I never really learned split jerk.
     
  9. Origins Blue Belt

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    I noticed that, too. I also noticed that they all looked really muscular and strong. Maybe being strong would help them lift the weights? I don't know a lot about this stuff, though.
     
  10. Origins Blue Belt

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    That's all very helpful, thanks.

    Yeah, a little while after I posted that I was like "Oh, duh. Wider grip=less distance." Thanks for not pointing out how stupid that question was.
     
  11. KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    That makes sense. I guess you just have to do it enough times to properly feel out where the second pull begins instead of thinking about it too much
     
  12. milano I am the Walrus

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    lol wut?

    They're stronger than any muscular bodybuilder you can think of.
     
  13. Origins Blue Belt

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  14. milano I am the Walrus

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    The second pull is not the moment the lifter hits the bar with his thigh or the crease of his waist. The second pull begins the instant the body starts to extend and the bar accelerates.

    In the snatch the reason the point of contact is so high is because of the hand placement. point of contact for the snatch is usually around the crease of the hips and the point of contact for the clean and jerk is the upper thigh.

    And again, if you watch the video a little more carefully you'll see that the "hump" is actually more of a scoop (double knee bend). The difference in degree or intensity of the scoop is a very natural thing that you won't consciously think about.

    Most of this is pretty much directly out of Everett's book.
     
  15. Origins Blue Belt

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    By the body extending, do you mean the hip angle opening up?

    Would the second pull then begin after the contact with the leg/waist or before?
     
  16. MASShole Get it?

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    Generally before.
     
  17. glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    In general...

    Yes, most good lifters contact with the bar in the crotch area, generally a little higher with the snatch and a bit lower in the clean because of the grip difference. Beginners should do this also, but often dont have great technique.

    There is no difference on the pull between powerclean and full clean. Some difference is often seen because those doing only powercleans generally arent as skilled, or have bad coaching. But the pull SHOULD be the same.

    You should NEVER contact the bar 1/3 to 1/2 the way up the thigh. This is wrong and indicates a second pull that started way too early, and in general a lift where things have gone wrong before the bar ever got to the knee.

    The second pull is the "jump" or "hip pop" or "extension" that happens AFTER the double knee bend. It starts either when contact with the hip happens or just before, this depends on how far in front of the hips the bar is and it varies a bit from lifter to lifter.
     
  18. Origins Blue Belt

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    That's very helpful, thank you Glenn. I was hoping you would jump into this thread.
     

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