"weight lifting should not hinder your main sport"

If I'm being a total dumbass by using the term "functional strength" here, I apologize. I'm not trying to stir up trouble. I've heard and seen the term over and over, as all of you have. I had the impression it meant "strength that's well suited to the task at hand."

Anyway, I've said what I have to say.

I don't think you're being a dumbass, there's absolutely no need to apologize. I'm just saying that the term "functional strength" has some negative connotations associated with it because of things like p90x. It's more a semantics argument than anything.
 
Strength training doesn't make much sense if you're doing Thai Boxing. It doesn't make you hit harder, it'll just give you muscles which will make you tire faster.

Thai boxing is pretty much 100% cardio. You'll learn to hit harder with technique, but if you wanna last longer I suggest you do cardio work, not strength training.


That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. By squatting and performing the overhead press, one can increase the power of their punch. Force = mass*acceleration. Increase your mass AND acceleration, and your punch will see a great improvement. As well as your kick and ability to absorb hits.
 
Why did they combine the forums again?

Do a 2 day split. You'll can still go to all your thai boxing sessions and be able to recover enough to focus on school. If you need more time, cancel a lifting session for the day and just pick off where you left off the next time you lift.
 
what the fuck is with all these retards coming in and spewing bullshit?

Strength training is important, no shit. When two people of equal skill compete, the strong person usually wins.

The best way to gain strength is done with a lot of rest time in between lifting sessions, which would be impossible when training as much as you do. Is it possible to get stronger on a full schedule like you have? Yes. Is it ideal? No.

You could EASILY get away with doing 2 days a week strength training with 2-3, maybe 4 exercises done in 5x5 or 3x5 and train muay thai.

That doesn't mean you should drop everything because people on a message board said you need to do this, or that, or whatever the fuck. Do what makes you happy, because thats why you do it right? You wouldn't go to the gym or train muay thai if it made you hate life, so there's no reason to subject yourself to that. If you want to go to the gym and do curls all day for training, do it, just be aware that it won't do shit and isn't even close to the best way to strength train.
 
Fun thread. On the question of principle, I am just going to add this:

Frankie Edgar. Does real strength training. Strong as hell. Endless gas tank. Very fast.
 
Most forms of weightlifting won't give you functional strength though...

functional strength is ambiguous. it is a combination of raw strength and technique (specifically, the technique of the "function" the body is performing). doing the compound lifts in a manner that is structured to develop strength and power IN ADDITION to drilling technical aspects of whatever sports you're involved in is the most effective way to enhance "functional strength."

TS: following starting strength or 5/3/1 would be a good introduction into strength training, especially when you have to couple it with the demands of your sport. maybe choosing a version of the program(s) that can be performed twice a week would be a good option; it would leave plenty of time for technique (and, inherently, conditioning) which, if you plan on competing, should be the basis of the majority of your training.
 
You could EASILY get away with doing 2 days a week strength training with 2-3, maybe 4 exercises done in 5x5 or 3x5 and train muay thai.

I just want to say thank you for this great discussion, and I do continue with strength training. Well, no, I am going to start with strength training. Till now I just worked really hard at the gym doing the wrong things.

I indeed want to stick to 3-4 excersises (overhead press, bench press, deadlift, squat, chin ups.. pull ups .. ). That are 6 excersises i am going to variate between work out session A and B, so I am going to do 2 sessions a week

Let's say I had a really hard thai training, and we sparred a lot and I learned a lot (= got the shit beaten out of me), does this mean I need to ease up on the strength training to recover?
 
BigSmile's training log, stardata 31102010

I am going to log my strength work outs on this forum

And, as a fellow beginner I am going to follow you!

Are you sure about 3x5 deadlifts, btw? That's very taxing. SS and Stronglifts 5x5 both have them 1x5. I used to do more and I feel much better now, and am still getting much stronger in the deadlift week by week.
 
the 3x5 deadlift didn't really feel taxing, but if 1x5 is better I will do that next time

thank you for following
 
the 3x5 deadlift didn't really feel taxing, but if 1x5 is better I will do that next time

thank you for following

I found it was okay it first, but once the weight started to get up a bit my back was feeling uncomfortable in the evenings.

But you should get confirmation from someone who knows more than I do (i.e. any of the regular posters on this forum) before considering changing your programme as a result of something I said! I am a complete noob to this stuff.
 
Yeah, but there's endurance strength, maximal strength, explosive strength, etc.

In my example, carrying a kid around for long periods of time, endurance strength is a bigger factor than it would be if I was doing deadlifts. Plus, if I carry the kid again and again my muscles (not to mention my ability to balance, walk, etc.) will eventually adapt to the specific demands of carrying a 30 lbs. kid in my arms in front of my chest -- the posture involved, keeping the kid upright, etc. So the activity becomes easier.

So all I'm saying is, barbell training has given me a good starting point to carry the kid, but it's not perfectly matched to the demands of the activity.

Edited to add:

Let's say you could magically take two identical dads and have them train on an identical barbell routine with identical poundages on a routine that emphasizes maximal strength -- a 5x5 or SS, let's say.

And, we'll have them each do one supplemental exercise. One will do car pushes, the other will walk a half-mile carrying a 30 lbs. sandbag in his arms.

After six months of this regimen, each dad is put at the front gate of Disney World's magic freakin' kingdom and handed a sleeping 30 lbs. child. Each dad must carry the child to the busport, hold the child until the bus comes, hold the child on the bus, and then carry the child back to the Disney resort cheap-o hotel where you're staying. All of this must be done without dropping the child, and while minimizing the number of times the father has to set down the child to rest, or stop walking to rest.

Which dad do you think will perform better at this task? My money's on the dad who trained with the sandbag, because his muscles, nervous system, etc. are better adapted to that exact task.

So, in this context, the dad who trained with the sandbag has strength that's a bit more functional than that of the other dad.

But what's "functional" is totally dependent on the demands of the task.

Good post. The term functional strength is not very popular on this board, but it is a helpful term. Different sports have different goals and tasks. In some cases explosive strength will be of greater importance than maximal strength. Having the outlook that strength is just strength is an oversimplification.

Different routines can be used to target maximal strength, explosive strength, or strength endurance. You weight training should target which type of strength or combination which is most beneficial for you sport. In the case of Thai boxing I would guess that explosive strength and strength endurance would be more important than maximal strength.
 
In the case of Thai boxing I would guess that explosive strength and strength endurance would be more important than maximal strength.

This is entirely true.


...but it just so happens that, for beginners up to intermediate athletes, the most effective way to increase explosive strength and strength endurance is to focus on their maximal strength foundation.
 
...but it just so happens that, for beginners up to intermediate athletes, the most effective way to increase explosive strength and strength endurance is to focus on their maximal strength foundation.

I would agree with this. If you have never done any resistance training, then you need to start with a basic routine like 5x5 or SS. I think you need a solid strength foundation, but you also need to know how to properly lift weights also. Programs for increasing strength endurance or explosive strength are too specialized for a someone who has never lifted weights. Plus you need to be proficient in the various lifts to see results from a more specialized program.
 
well, i have lifted weights for years, but i used to go a lot, then months i wouldnt go, and then i went back to it. So i would build up, lose it again, build up..and lose it again. I did do a lot of soccer and mountainbiking, so i always liked sports, just never saw a competition in weight lifting. Except for the battle against myself.

I never really liked it but it grew on me and i started to like it more and more. Now I have been pretty consistent for some time, and really digging into a lot of material to find out how to do it properly. Then I found thaiboxing and thaiboxing and weight lifting just didnt seem to match anymore. Then I made this thread

So i know how to properly lift weights

So, is the basic strength program still good enough for me or should I aim more towards strength endurance?

I think I am fine with a basic strength program, i don't like trying 6 different programs in a week. I started with this one, in about 4-6 weeks I will look into it what I am going to do next
 
Let's say I had a really hard thai training, and we sparred a lot and I learned a lot (= got the shit beaten out of me), does this mean I need to ease up on the strength training to recover?

Only your body knows the answer to that. There are people who only do strength training 3 times a week and have a hard time recovering, and there are people who lift heavy shit in the AM, train in the afternoon, and do cardio in the evening. Do it and see, some people say theres no such thing as overtraining, just undereating. You won't die if you try it for yourself.
 
There are a lot of pages and responses here and I'm at work, so don't have the time to work through them all.

The old schoolers say don't touch weights, newer trainers have some knowledge and the odd one knows enough for it to be useful and not dangerous.

I can't really comment about weights. I started weight training a month before I started thaiboxing and admittedly I have let both slip in the last few years.
I do know however that for my weight, I was strong, fast and powerful when I worked on both. I always worked to try and get my CNS more efficient (more potential power generation), but as has probably been said, you need to be able to use that new power through rep after rep after rep of the technique.
I was a student, so had the time to fully rest and recover.
Body weight endurance came in the fighting gym, so it was not missed in favour of weight lifting.

I have quite a high work ethic, so while I trained my strength, I also didn't let my conditioning slip (quite the opposite) and THAT is a key issue with people who take up lifting. They either focus too much on that, or are too tired because they take on too much volume.

End of the day, realise that outside of your training, the other things you do need to be used as tools to work on your weaknesses. You can never be too strong or too fit, but you can have a lack of recovery which hinder both.
 
Nice one! Do you believe this too?



I do tbh, but with a slight change to the wording.

I personally believe you need to cycle training levels (to plug it, that's why I like the Joel methodology of training, 8 week blocks, 2 phases with a cycling period mid block)
The thais for example take a week off before a fight and after a fight (for the higher levels, lower down, no they don't before anyone picks it apart) as they train year around at a lower intensity levels (like a runner starts off running 45 minutes at a slow pace and effort and in time the pace goes up but the effort required remains the same).

A lot of trainers also say you should take a week off after competition to allow hormones to reset as a fight is extremely demanding and skews hormonal levels off (ie if you don't allow them to recover, you are going back into training not fully recovered and will plateau sooner then if you rested).
 
I recently took a long lay off from muay thai due to injury. I decided to start lifting heavy, thanks in part to this forum.

I was always fast for my size (5'8 195) but relatively weak. Since I started a modified 5/3/1 program my bench press has increased from about 185 to 240, I can do 15 pull ups instead of 2.. my upper body is drastically bigger. During this time I managed to drop 5lbs. I started training muay thai again this week and sparred for the first time saturday. Despite not hitting pads, sprinting or running for months my conditioning was surprisingly not that bad and I actually felt lighter on my feet. I felt a drastic difference in my clinch game. I was always very weak in the clinch but I was able to easily control a heavyweight this time around. I do feel as if I'm hitting the pads a bit harder, but I've done a ton of core work since I've been injured. At the end of my first full session in months (2.5hrs = conditioning, drills, pads and sparring). I felt great and decided I had enough energy to burn off to do pull ups, core work and 100 push ups afterwards. I know everyone is different, but I thought I'd share my experience with lifting and muay thai
 

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