Weight lifting - how necessary?

[wOg]

"Dedicate 50% of your time to Jiu Jitsu specific training, mixing long training sessions (to perfect the techniques) with short and explosive training (to improve your physical prowess). With the time left, use 20% to increase strength and 30% to increase stamina, without leaving out your nutrition, which supports your work 100%."

--Interview with Rickson Gracie, GracieMagazine #16

This sounds like the appropriate breakdown for me. The key phrase is "with the time left."

All things equal, I'd rather be the guy who trains jiu jitsu 5x a week, than the guy who trains BJJ 3x a week and spends another 2 or 3 days lifting weights.

In the course of a year, the first guy has trained more than 100 times than his weight-lifting teammate. In two years, the gap is 200 times - and it just gets bigger over time.

I think there is some very incorrect thinking in this thread about the relationship between jiu jitsu and hypertrophy, and about the relationship between weight-lifting and injury prevention as it relates to jiu jitsu injuries.

But each to each. Lift weights because you enjoy it, because you find it fun. If you want to improve your jiu jitsu, then I really think that Marcelo has it right: train your jiu jitsu.

 

[MMA junkie]

^ It really boils down to schedule and how much time you have.

You can't blindly say, hey you weight lift too much compared to train Jiujitsu too much.

Most of the practitioners here work.
Most of them do not have BJJ classes all day long.

Which means, sometimes you have more time available to do Strength and Conditioning vs. Jiujitsu. Sure, if all things are equal, train your Jiujitsu.

I do believe though, if you don't like weight training and are not competing, don't do it. It's not that big of a deal IMO.

 

[TrevorRoss]

Do pull ups and row. Pull ups and Rows are going to put the body under more load than a curl, as well as syncing in functions of the entire shoulder girdle. Doing a pull up with extra weight added (via a belt, vest, dumbbell between the feet, etc) or rowing a ton of weight (seated, chest supported, etc etc.) is going make strong arms.

Really!? You can give me as much jargon as you want, and yes I do chins/rows/Deadlifts, but when I went on that no direct arm work kick years ago guess what? I got bicep injuries, so I do my curls.

 

[TrevorRoss]

Not lifting makes you gay

This should end the thread.

 

[pliftkl]

Thanks for all the responses. I think you guys have convinced me to keep working on strength training. I'll take the recommendations to mix it up, add things like deadlift to the mix, and set goals.

Like the one poster said, "suck it up" and do it.

P.S. Regarding the stretching in the morning. I do it very, very gently. It makes a huge difference for me. If I skip a morning, I feel much tighter all day long.

If you wander over to the S&C forum, and read the stickies, you'll probably get some useful perspectives on what constitutes a good routine. The forum is also pretty newb friendly, as long as you can demonstrate that you actually read the things that say "Read this before posting".

 

[lakergirl52]

^This.

I lift 2x a week. I have a weight training class so I just lift there. I do the big five/starting strength. I lift because I love doing it and I roll with mostly guys who are a lot bigger than me so I want to not get smashed just from being under them.

 

[WitchCraft]

Ever heard of a guy called Marcelo Garcia?

You're point? You reference an elite athlete in the sport whom most people will never be like.

Having strong shoulders, legs, back, and core will make you a better grappler. There really is no argument. If your goal is BJJ, obviously focus on that. But a lifting regimen should definitely be included. I go to BJJ 5 days a week in the evening and lift 2-3x a week on top of being a full time student.

 

[WitchCraft]

^This.

I lift 2x a week. I have a weight training class so I just lift there. I do the big five/starting strength. I lift because I love doing it and I roll with mostly guys who are a lot bigger than me so I want to not get smashed just from being under them.

Hey! There you are! What happened to the training log????? It was nice to see another girl for once. Too much testosterone up in here

 

[EchoBoomer]

The optimal athlete is...

*Powerful
*Strong
*Fast
*Conditioned (Physically/Mentally)
*Flexible
*Technically Sound
*Accurate

*INTELLIGENT

When two warriors skill set are equal, the one with the greater attributes will win.

Figure it out...

:icon_neut

 

[Senshi]

i say not necessary, pushups pullups, situps and other bodyweight exercises are sufficient in my book. maybe a kettlebell if you want but i know plenty of guys who don't lift weights in my gym and are in excellent shape and can feel just as strong as anyone who does lift weights.

 

[bjjmedic]

How does weight lifting prevent injuries?

 

[HomerPlata]

How does weight lifting prevent injuries?

Builds stronger muscles, better able to stabilise your joints and resist the stresses of grappling.

 

[waiguoren]

You're point? You reference an elite athlete in the sport whom most people will never be like.

Having strong shoulders, legs, back, and core will make you a better grappler. There really is no argument. If your goal is BJJ, obviously focus on that. But a lifting regimen should definitely be included. I go to BJJ 5 days a week in the evening and lift 2-3x a week on top of being a full time student.

First of all: I don't care what you do with your time and telling us all contributes nothing to the discussion.

Second of all: you seem awfully confident when you say "a lifting regimen should definitely be included." I happen to know Marcelo Garcia personally. Please send me your contact information; I'll forward it to Marcelo and let him know that an expert from the Sherdog grappling forum has some advice that "will make [him] a better grappler."

Of course you might believe Marcelo is an alien or a cyborg and is therefore exempt from your (clearly expert) opinions about (human) grappling. In that case I'll have no problem fighting other elite grapplers who don't lift.

 

[Chalito]

This is an interesting topic. I've been considering getting back to weight lifting. I had taken a break from the regular gym to train more Jiu Jitsu and work on technique. I think after reading this i'll try going back to the gym at least twice a weak to lift weights.

 

[HomerPlata]

First of all: I don't care what you do with your time and telling us all contributes nothing to the discussion.

Second of all: you seem awfully confident when you say "a lifting regimen should definitely be included." I happen to know Marcelo Garcia personally. Please send me your contact information; I'll forward it to Marcelo and let him know that an expert from the Sherdog grappling forum has some advice that "will make [him] a better grappler."

Of course you might believe Marcelo is an alien or a cyborg and is therefore exempt from your (clearly expert) opinions about (human) grappling. In that case I'll have no problem fighting other elite grapplers who don't lift.

You don't come across too well there, I detect a little bit of arrogance with you, fella. Just because an outstanding grappler like Marcelo Garcia doesn't lift weights, doesn't mean weights don't improve you. If he did lift weights, and it made him no better, that would be more conclusive proof, but as it stands you're arguing against speculation with speculation. And you're sounding like a "douche" while you're at it.

 

[The Disciple**]

you dont need to lift. just simple things such as push ups and crunches help.
just look at carlos newton he said all he did was things such as pushups and sit ups.

 

[waiguoren]

You don't come across too well there, I detect a little bit of arrogance with you, fella. Just because an outstanding grappler like Marcelo Garcia doesn't lift weights, doesn't mean weights don't improve you. If he did lift weights, and it made him no better, that would be more conclusive proof, but as it stands you're arguing against speculation with speculation. And you're sounding like a "douche" while you're at it.

You're correct: correlation != causation. Marcelo not lifting weights doesn't imply it wouldn't help him.

Which is to say: you seem to have missed the point entirely. The point is that people like the genius I was responding to have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to preparing for elite competition. Would lifting weights help the average competitor? Maybe, maybe not. I didn't take a position. Do the people on this forum, including me, understand the intricacies of muscle repair and maintenance, of neuromuscular innervation, of metabolism? No. The most learned scientists in the world don't really understand such things, and that's why so much medical advice boils down to, "do what makes you feel healthy."

As you implied, it's impossible to do a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial (the gold standard in proving causation) in cases like this, so we're stuck with the above, woefully incomplete science. We're in a sad state when the experts are dramatically less confident than the laypeople (oh, excuse me, enlightened grappling masters) of the Sherdog grappling forum.

That's why posts like this are so silly and wasteful. And since I don't suppose this message will get through your thick skull, I'm going to do something more productive now.

 

[Falufalump]

Regarding how weight lifting prevents injuries. The main goals of a good exercise program should to do the following: Improve movement, improve performance in athletic activity. These two things should be accomplished by improving postural imbalances, tissue quality, movement patterns, and strength qualities (this includes power, endurance, maximum strength, etc. . ).

Regarding not everyone doing weightlifting. You can achieve something from many different roads. You don't have to Squat 430 lbs to be a high level athlete (most don't). But, it is indisputable, that you must maintain, or achieve, a certain level of strength and athletic quality of movement through your practices. Whether you choose the paths of weightlifting, plyometrics (which can also include weights), mobility based exercise, static stretching, yoga, etc.

It's all just another tool in the tool box.

 

[TrevorRoss]

you dont need to lift. just simple things such as push ups and crunches help.
just look at carlos newton he said all he did was things such as pushups and sit ups.

Get with the program, this bodyweight only stuff is old hat. Squats, Deadlifts, Dips, Chins and their variations are where it's at.

 

[WitchCraft]

First of all: I don't care what you do with your time and telling us all contributes nothing to the discussion.

Second of all: you seem awfully confident when you say "a lifting regimen should definitely be included." I happen to know Marcelo Garcia personally. Please send me your contact information; I'll forward it to Marcelo and let him know that an expert from the Sherdog grappling forum has some advice that "will make [him] a better grappler."

Of course you might believe Marcelo is an alien or a cyborg and is therefore exempt from your (clearly expert) opinions about (human) grappling. In that case I'll have no problem fighting other elite grapplers who don't lift.

First of all: I mentioned my training schedule because some people were commenting on not being able to lift and train bjj at the same time because of their busy schedule, not to interest you.

Second of all: I never said Marcelo could be better. You missed my argument. An AVERAGE guy who is weak, out of shape, NOT Marcelo, would benefit from lifting weights. But I mean, if you want to message your friend and say I'm an expert, that'd be cool. He's awesome!