We should be concerned about our sport.

[German Supplex]

I think you are part of a growing trend. More and more gi grapplers are crossing over to join us on the dark side every day.

NG4L!

Because the truth is coming more to light the more we see world champ gi BJJ guys losing to low tier guys in MMA (which implies being a world champ in BJJ doesn't carry the prestige and standard it did a few years ago).

 

[ronbro]

Because the truth is coming more to light the more we see world champ gi BJJ guys losing to low tier guys in MMA (which implies being a world champ in BJJ doesn't carry the prestige and standard it did a few years ago).

what world champs are losing to low tier guys?

 

[BrainBar]

Comes down to this:

There are MMA fighters who don't train Muay Thai.
There are MMA fighters who don't train sport wrestling.
There are MMA fighters won don't train sport boxing.

Most train at least 2 of the above 3. Some train them all. But some train only 1 of the above.

But its hard to find ANY MMA fighter at the pro level who doesn't train jiu-jitsu. It just doesn't happen.

No one enters the cage without having trained in triangles, arm bars, RNC's, guard, etc.

Part of the reason some jiujitsu isn't seen as working as often anymore is because ALL the fighters train jiujitsu. DEFENSE is just as much a part of jiujitsu as offense.

So when a great striker ends up in someone's guard, and he successfully defends chokes and armbars, people always say "See, BJJ doesn't work".

They don't mention that the striker spends 90% of his training time learning jiujitsu's defense techniques.

 

[Gambledub]

Do you think a lot of sport bjj could be scored more subjectively? Perhaps with judges, instead of rigid guidelines as to what scores points. For example why should back mount only be with two hooks in? Body triangles, the crucifix, the truck can all be just as dominant but not score points. Maybe there could even be periods or rounds.

I realize this would cause some controversial decisions etc, but I feel it would also create an incentive to go for submissions and show dominance to the judges. And without points there would be little reason to stall.

I think competitors would be less likely to hang out in double guard pull type situations if they needed to show dominance in the eyes of the judges

 

[Einarr]

There is a simple answer to this problem: 100% no-gi.

Join us!!!!

Only if I can Cross Choke you with your rashguard.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Wrestling ran into the same problems for about 6 years. The rules rewarded stalling until the very end, or gaining a quick point and stalling the rest of the match. BJJ has turned into the same thing; both guys desperately holding an inferior position that has an easier way to win by stalling until the end then scoring.

Wrestling switched the rules and the action went up big time, and not by artificial means. BJJ needs to address the situation of rewarding the bottom guy for flopping, holding, then sweeping at the very end.

 

[Shemhazai]

Stop giving points for taking top position without doing something meaningful with it. (Be it by sweep or TD.)

Points for side control/KOB, mount and back control. Nothing else. Watch the game open up.

 

[KarateFist]

I think you are part of a growing trend. More and more gi grapplers are crossing over to join us on the dark side every day.

NG4L!

umm no, there is no trend, if anything it's the other way around, more people who did nogi are doing gi. Also nogi is just as boring to watch as gi

 

[FlexLuthor]

umm no, there is no trend, if anything it's the other way around, more people who did nogi are doing gi. Also nogi is just as boring to watch as gi

Got any actual figures or stats for that? I'm guessing no.

And boring is subjective. Very.

 

[KneeShield]

Wrestling ran into the same problems for about 6 years. The rules rewarded stalling until the very end, or gaining a quick point and stalling the rest of the match. BJJ has turned into the same thing; both guys desperately holding an inferior position that has an easier way to win by stalling until the end then scoring.

Wrestling switched the rules and the action went up big time, and not by artificial means. BJJ needs to address the situation of rewarding the bottom guy for flopping, holding, then sweeping at the very end.

What were the rules changes?

 

[zhuzheetsu]

The solution is pretty clear, just do away with points. As it is currently people are happy to just not get swept or otherwise give up position then win by advantage. Just have a match go until one person gets subbed. Maintaining the points system for lower belts might help tournaments run more smoothly, but at black belt/advanced, there is no good reason why matches should not be sub only.

 

[FatherSauce]

Take out advantages. 0-0 ties go to sudden death overtime. Penalty loses, score wins. Tie at the end of ot is a double loss.

 

[SFCFighter]

Comes down to this:

There are MMA fighters who don't train Muay Thai.
There are MMA fighters who don't train sport wrestling.
There are MMA fighters won don't train sport boxing.

Most train at least 2 of the above 3. Some train them all. But some train only 1 of the above.

But its hard to find ANY MMA fighter at the pro level who doesn't train jiu-jitsu. It just doesn't happen.

No one enters the cage without having trained in triangles, arm bars, RNC's, guard, etc.

Part of the reason some jiujitsu isn't seen as working as often anymore is because ALL the fighters train jiujitsu. DEFENSE is just as much a part of jiujitsu as offense.

So when a great striker ends up in someone's guard, and he successfully defends chokes and armbars, people always say "See, BJJ doesn't work".

They don't mention that the striker spends 90% of his training time learning jiujitsu's defense techniques.

I would say the majority of MMA fighters do not do sport jiu jitsu (in a gi).

I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of them rarely did no-gi grappling without strikes, starting from the knees.

 

[tap21]

Only if I can Cross Choke you with your rashguard.

If this website is right about your name, then I think I'd like to keep you as far away from my clothing as possible:

"Generally speaking, you have few problems with your health; however, there is a weakness affecting the fluid functions of the body."

(Source: http://www.kabalarians.com/Male/einarr.htm)

umm no, there is no trend, if anything it's the other way around, more people who did nogi are doing gi. Also nogi is just as boring to watch as gi

HA! Gi definitely wears the crown for most painfully boring to watch.

 

[Solidus Snake]

I think it's more of a lower weight problem than else.. all the finals from 76 kgs onward were pretty good. Lepri took down and passed JT Torres.. the final between Lo and Otavio, even if between two renowned guard pullers, was really action packed too.. as the one between Pena and Galvao. Also Rodolfo and Buchecha both finished their weight category opponents. I can understand and totally agree that the 64 and 70 kgs finals were THIS bad, but I fail to see why people must considerate ONLY the lower categories to criticize ALL Bjj. Doesn't make sense to me.

Keenan is a bit of a case on his own for now, among the heavyweights.. and frankly I hope his style will not become a trend. I used to really cheer for him but the worm guard was just too much. Untile this double guard/lapel stalling stuff doesn't spread in all the top categories I'm fine.

 

[mtruitt76]

The solution is pretty clear, just do away with points. As it is currently people are happy to just not get swept or otherwise give up position then win by advantage. Just have a match go until one person gets subbed. Maintaining the points system for lower belts might help tournaments run more smoothly, but at black belt/advanced, there is no good reason why matches should not be sub only.

The good reason is that some matches would run an hour. Also you would get situations where you have a semifinal match pitting on guy who just had a 5 minute match vs another who had a 45 minute match. Who do you think has a big advantage going into that one.

 

[pharoah21]

I just don't think there's an answer to this. BJJ is often boring to watch, same with Judo, same with wrestling. Grappling was never meant to be entertaining and I can't for the life of me think of any way to make it so without adding GnP. Eddie Bravo tried something like that but it just looked like MMA without the stand up, and I'm not too keen on getting hit in the face anyway. I don't think grappling can ever become a well paid spectator type sport.

 

[elzar]

Why exactly am I supposed to care about what a wrestling writer thinks about jiu jitsu?

it's a commentary on both sports.

 

[drabon74]

Comes down to this:

There are MMA fighters who don't train Muay Thai.
There are MMA fighters who don't train sport wrestling.
There are MMA fighters won don't train sport boxing.

Most train at least 2 of the above 3. Some train them all. But some train only 1 of the above.

But its hard to find ANY MMA fighter at the pro level who doesn't train jiu-jitsu. It just doesn't happen.

No one enters the cage without having trained in triangles, arm bars, RNC's, guard, etc.

Part of the reason some jiujitsu isn't seen as working as often anymore is because ALL the fighters train jiujitsu. DEFENSE is just as much a part of jiujitsu as offense.

So when a great striker ends up in someone's guard, and he successfully defends chokes and armbars, people always say "See, BJJ doesn't work".

They don't mention that the striker spends 90% of his training time learning jiujitsu's defense techniques.

Well said. I thought my bjj was not very effective when i was training with guys who were experienced, then one day i grappled with a friend who was a great athlete but no bjj experience. every 30 seconds i had his back for easy easy chokes, his legs were there for the taking as he was clueless about leglocks. He is a strong kid and could sometimes get on top but that was very short lived as he could not hold position.

 

[400lbKneeOnFace]

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