We needs some more A Level grapplers in the UFC

[Iron Nick]

@20falarVerdades

• Ground and pound is a part of mixed martial arts, not a part of grappling, nor a part of wrestling.
• Regarding takedowns, St-Pierre is clearly better, having a higher takedown accuracy (74% to 46.5%) while simultaneously landing more takedowns per 15 mins (4.16 to 1.90).
• St-Pierre has a submission win over Matt Hughes, who's been a better grappler than anyone Jon Jones has ever submitted, so while it's true that Jones has more submissions inside the UFC, it's hardly the case that he's a significantly better submission-grappler.

 

[DaWrassler007]

Greaseges St. Pierre's hype in these threads are always so funny and way beyond reality

 

[theflashh]

If ground and pound is part of grappling,
GSP is also #1 in UFC history in strikes landed....
Where do you think thoses strikes came from?

Karate Kick?

Stop it, get some help.

GSP landed all those strikes and couldn't even finish Dan Hardy on the ground

Pathetic, shows you how pillow-fisted and weak his G&P is

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

If ground and pound is part of grappling,
GSP is also #1 in UFC history in strikes landed....
Where do you think thoses strikes came from?

Karate Kick?

Stop it, get some help.

In terms of ground strikes GSP has the most in the UFC with 461 over 23 UFC fights. BUT the crazy thing is Khabib is right behind him with 380 over 12 fights. Crazy how much GnP he uses per fight. Jones is 264 or something like that.

 

[Lovelyboy]

And how many ground and pound finishes does GSP have ?

Finishes > Meaningless strikes that are akin to point fighting

This is the truth

Even Khabib already has more submissions than GSP in title defenses

Lets ignore that Jones is a LHW with way more power to end fights on the ground (GNP is significantly weaker than stand-up strikes)

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

@20falarVerdades

• Ground and pound is a part of mixed martial arts, not a part of grappling, nor a part of wrestling.

I would argue that GnP adds layers to the grappling game. In Sambo and MMA it changes how you can prompt movements, sweeps, transition, and submissions. I think GnP falls under grappling because it can only exist in the context of grappling.

100% agree with the rest of what you said.

 

[JustBleed69]

Wrestlers are the strongest people on the planet.

 

[Iron Nick]

I would argue that GnP adds layers to the grappling game. In Sambo and MMA it changes how you can prompt movements, sweeps, transition, and submissions. I think GnP falls under grappling because it can only exist in the context of grappling.

100% agree with the rest of what you said.

I see where you're coming from, although i'd still separate it, just for the sake of this discussion, as the guy i've replied to was talking about grappling in MMA - if he'd said "Jones is better at taking people down and ground and pounding them" i'd have to be inclined to agree, but if we're discussing grappling as a seperate thing, then i don't think he's right.

But regarding your point: you might just as well argue about grappling including ground strikes as an own discipline and i think it's fine to do so, as they're flowing into each other, in MMA at least.

It's quite similar to the issue of Jones' (and other wrestlers who do good on the feet) striking: in a kickboxing or boxing match (even with MMA-gloves), Jones would get flattened by guys he'd demolish in MMA, but since the threat of a takedown is an element that influences striking in MMA, his for itself certainly good striking gets enhanced by a significant margin.