Was Tyson as good as people think?

[clashnat]

You are out of your mind. Mike would knock Wlads head into Vitalis lap.

We're talking 1996 Mike. Who did he beat at that time? McNeeley, Mathis Jr, Bruno, Seldon and then the loss to Holyfield. I think it's safe to say that Wladimir would also beat those opponents.

Mike was a shadow of his former self in 96 already.

 

[Vintersorg]

The thing with Wladimir is that he hasn't had those career edges for quite some time. With Tyson we can say that he was that strong in 88, that deteriorated in 91 and past his best in 96..

Whats the difference between 2007-2010 Wladimir, 2010-2013 Wladimir and Wladimir today. Has he deteriorated or gotten better?

He's gotten much better. Early in his career he was nowhere near as good as Vitali, and now I believe that he's surpassed his older brother. Don't get me wrong, Vitali is for me still the fighter I'd like to watch more than Wlad and he's perhaps just on a slightly higher level than Vitali was, not a huge difference. Wladimir is not an entertaining boxer, but the way he slowly demolishes his opponents is just amazing and they can't do shit about it, pure science. I don't think there ever was a heavyweight with such a powerful 1-2 combination(even stronger than George Foreman), and he can throw hundreds of those during the fight safely without getting hit. I love Mike Tyson but even at the top of his game he's nowhere near top 5 heavyweights of all time. Not just because he was not mentally tough as the other all-time greats or because he had faced relatively weak competition, but his style was so spectacular and it relied on him using 100% of his physical abilities all the time. Humans are not machines and you can't fight like that for long. We would not have aged well in terms of boxing as a heavyweight, even if he hadn't gone to jail. As soon as he got put to the test by a fighter who was not afraid of him, he failed and he was never the same after that. Tyson against Wlad/Vitali/Foreman=Patterson Vs Liston, same outcome.

Muhammad Ali was past his physical prime when he fought monsters and he still won most of his fights, even against guys who had styles which worked against him. Like I said before, Ali was mentally 10 times stronger than Tyson, he had a granite chin he was brave as hell. Also, he was able to con fighters in lots of ways to think he's shook or to fool them he wasn't shook when he really was.

 

[PUO3]

We're talking 1996 Mike. Who did he beat at that time? McNeeley, Mathis Jr, Bruno, Seldon and then the loss to Holyfield. I think it's safe to say that Wladimir would also beat those opponents.

Mike was a shadow of his former self in 96 already.

Mike in the first Holyfield fight puts Wlad down like Old Yeller. Wlad cant do what Holyfield did.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

the greatest or not,Prime...he was better than bowe.......curious why you compare him to bowe ?

better than bowe in what sense? more explosive and more powerful yes. but bowe i think all around was a better fighter and would have hurt mike badly if they had fought in their primes

 

[korean blood]

better than bowe in what sense? more explosive and more powerful yes. but bowe i think all around was a better fighter and would have hurt mike badly if they had fought in their primes

I'm a big fan of them both, I also think Bowe beats Mike if they fight.

Bowe not only could fight on the outside as well as being a killer on the inside. He was tough and had a hell of a chin in his prime. He wouldn't fold

 

[Twelve75]

better than bowe in what sense? more explosive and more powerful yes. but bowe i think all around was a better fighter and would have hurt mike badly if they had fought in their primes

maybe,but one of the main things that sticks in my mind was Bowe ducking Lewis...not saying he was mentally weak against fighters who he knew he wouldn't crush...but....

 

[Breakfast Bar]

Tyson vs. Wlad is one of the toughest hypothetical fights to call--at least out of guys we have good film on. It would probably be one-sided, but it's really tough to know in who's favor. To act like Wlad couldn't be hurt by a fast, explosive fighter who jumped on him from the start is ignoring his flaws. To act like Tyson couldn't be shut down by a long, hard jab and a guy who clinched and didn't let him get off his punches on the inside is advertising that you've only seen Tyson as a Youtube highlight subject. Tough for either guy to deal with the other's physical tools and styles, and both guys could be broken when things didn't go their way early. I'd probably lean (slightly) towards Wladimir because he has the few tangibles you can point to--his size and his streak of championship wins. But the intangibles are more important than those factors in that fight.

 

[PUO3]

Tyson that fought Holyfield eats Wlad alive. Folks seem to forget the dog fight that was and what Holyfield walked through.

 

[JABMALASSIE]

I used to read boxing magazines in art class when I was a kid. I remember reading about a young fighter who was a bit of a prodigy. He knocked out grown men when he was 13. I think Tyson was gifted with great power, could take a punch and perfected the CUS DAMATO "peek a boo" style. There are disadvantages to the style. He was a great fighter but he is not a heavyweight sugar ray robinson. He is not the greatest technical boxer although a very good boxer. He asset was his power.

 

[BigJG]

Lebron James does not come close to Tyson. If you want to make a thread questioning how good someone actually is, it should be Lebron, not Tyson. Tyson was shockingly, disturbingly good.

I simply responded to someone saying tyson is the best athlete they ever seen

 

[BigJG]

And 2015 wlad kos 96 tyson with a straight right just like lewis

 

[PUO3]

Except Wlad is no where close to as good or as durable as Lewis but ok.

 

[BigJG]

Except Wlad is no where close to as good or as durable as Lewis but ok.

Correct but same outcome happens after 8+ rounds of 1 -2 hold . Tyson fades and gets ko'd

 

[Seano]

I don't think Wlads competition is nearly as strong as even 90s version of Tyson.

 

[PUO3]

Correct but same outcome happens after 8+ rounds of 1 -2 hold . Tyson fades and gets ko'd

2002 Tyson when Lewis fought him, maybe. So cool he MIGHT beat a washed up irrelevant version of Tyson.

Mid 90s Tyson gets a second rape conviction for what he would do to Wlad. (And for the record that would be his only legitimate rape conviction.)

 

[Sunfish]

If he hadn't said what he did on the stand he probably wouldn't get the conviction.

 

[PUO3]

If he hadn't said what he did on the stand he probably wouldn't get the conviction.

He isnt bright.

Really off topic for the thread but as a kid I was disgusted by it. Years later after having read the back stories and what not Ill never be convinced he was guilty. Cant believe he got a guilty verdict.

 

[djacobox372]

Mike was a beast, went down hill quick after cus died. Abandoned headmovement and technique cuz he was able to just wreck shit with power. any undersized heavyweight KO machine is gonna be in the top 10 of most fans, just off of sentimentality I guess.

The thing with mike is that we didn't really get to see him in his prime vs the bigger names at the time which is a shame, so its hard to rank him high to some people.

Tyson was a beast tho, can't sleep on em. Ina perfect world he'd hold his own vs any of the HW greats. You'd really have to have seen it as it happened, dude was a phenom and destroying eveything and was youngest hw champ ever. That alone makes him worth honorable mention

In his prime the biggest names at HW were Holmes, Spinks, and Carl Williams. Tyson wrecked all three.

It's rare that a hw meets another all-time great at both of their peaks, there hasn't really been a "frazier-ali" since the first fraizer ali. Of course what makes Ali so great is that he beat Foreman at his peak while he was past his.

 

[BamaBoy91]

Tyson had GOAT potential

 

[Prime Ang]

People overrate Cus's involvement with Tyson. Tyson was 11-0 with Cus and went 26-0 after Cus died. Cus meant a lot to him but his downfall was the success he ended up having which led to drugs and partying and getting married too young. People need to stop feeling sorry for him about Cus when in reality it didn't have that much to do with it.