Was Tyson as good as people think?

[Fire of Youth]

This. I feel most casual boxing fans only know him as a knock out artist but in his earlier and best days his entries and technique was there along with his freakish explosive power. After Cus died and he stopped training with Kevin Rooney he started to rely on his KO power and headhunting too much.

Perfectly summarized

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

I was too young to remember Mike Tyson in his prime. I caught his career after prison.

After the Lennox Lewis fight one day I was online and saw an advertisement for Mike Tyson's complete career on DVD. I bought it. Some of the footage was grainy but it had every Tyson fight including amateur fights. I was amazed at his power and technique. Before I had only seen highlights and fights when he wasn't as sharp or past his prime. When I saw Mike Tyson in his prime, at his best I was amazed.

Then I started watching alot of older fights. Muhammad Ali. Georges Foreman. Joe Frazier. Even Joe Louis. A lot of their fights are on Youtube. What I noticed about Tyson is that he had a rare combination of technique and power. He wasn't the most technical Boxer but he was so explosive. He had great head movement, threw body shots and devastated his opponents.

People will tell you he was a bully in the ring and he beat his opponents through intimidation before the fight started. That's not true. I'm sure some people couldn't help but be afraid after he developed his reputation but it was his power that sealed the deal. Some people say that he didn't have the best opponents. The truth is he made good fighters look like amateurs. I mean the way he just destroyed Michael Spinks and defeated Larry Holmes you could tell he was on another level.

Tyson in his prime was beatable. Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis might have beaten him in his prime. Muhammad Ali and George Foreman might have beaten him as well but personally I'd put my money on a prime Mike Tyson vs. anyone else in their prime. He was that dangerous. If he wasn't the best ever he was damn close.

Now imagine this, a prime Mike Tyson with all of his Boxing skills training from age 20-24 in Mixed Martial Arts. He learns all of the useful MMA techniques complimenting his Boxing base and he's still in his physical prime. What kind of fighter could he have been in MMA? That would be very interesting!

 

[smellmyfarts]

The Tyson that smashed Michael Spinks in a round beats any version of Ali, Frazier, or foreman.

Hardcore boxing fans always have a problem with this, but it's absolutely 100% true. Prime Ali beat guys like Trevor Berbick, but not the way Tyson did. The thing about tyson that throws people off is that he peaked at an age that most great fighters were still amateurs.

Prime Tyson's hardest fights would be prime Lewis and the boring Russian in Decision mode.

 

[Seano]

Long time lurker , just watched the Mike Tyson Documentary. It got me thinking whenever I talk boxing with friends they automatically bring up Tyson and how great he was , with a few friends calling him TBE. I disagree ,I don't even think he was better than Bowe but just me.

Tyson had a combo of skills and physical gifts that I personally don't believe the HW division ever saw before or again. Unfortunately, he was mentally weak and allowed things outside the ring to rule his life.

My question to you is where do you rank Tyson in his era and all time?

Low top 10ish. Its easy to point out Tyson's loss to Douglas in his prime but he's hardly the first great fighter to have a silly loss on his resume. He was the only guy to stop both Michael Spinks and Larry Holmes and while Holmes was a little past his prime, he was not as shot as people say and his ablility to fight on for years after the Tyson fight was confirmation of that. Tyson was the youngest man to ever unify the HW championship, a record unlikely to ever be broken.

And even after the loss to Douglas, he was far from a failure. He was still winning titles in the 90's and 00's.

Tyson is only remembered for the low points of his career but when you start comparing his resume to guys outside the top 5, not much separates them from Tyson.

 

[StopDucking]

Where did the myth that Mike Tyson's career went downhill after Cus D'Amato's death come from? He won his very first world title a year after Cus' death. Am I missing a private joke?

 

[Seano]

edit- double post.

 

[EndlessCritic]

There are people in this world who think kung fu is the greatest martial art, and any true kung fu master would never lose a fight. We laugh at these people.

Sadly, this describes most boxing fans.

Any boxer who loses clearly isn't a great boxer, because if he was great, he would never lose.

 

[deev]

There are people in this world who think kung fu is the greatest martial art, and any true kung fu master would never lose a fight. We laugh at these people.

Sadly, this describes most boxing fans.

Any boxer who loses clearly isn't a great boxer, because if he was great, he would never lose.

This might be the dumbest post I've read all week and I've read a lot of sherdog this week. 10k posts in 2 years. Go outside, do something with your life.

 

[MrFeeny]

Where did the myth that Mike Tyson's career went downhill after Cus D'Amato's death come from? He won his very first world title a year after Cus' death. Am I missing a private joke?

tyson fanboys like to spread lies to further their agenda.

if you listen to them, they'd make it seem like tyson got his ass kicked against douglas at age 40 instead of 23 or whatever he was.

EDIT: I just looked. Tyson was only 11-0 when d'amato died, and only probably 8-0 when I imagined he got sick and couldn't train Tyson.....so without D'amto, tyson fought (mostly bums) all the way to 37-0 before buster wrecked his shit.

 

[Seano]

tyson fanboys like to spread lies to further their agenda.

if you listen to them, they'd make it seem like tyson got his ass kicked against douglas at age 40 instead of 23 or whatever he was.

EDIT: I just looked. Tyson was only 11-0 when d'amato died, and only probably 8-0 when I imagined he got sick and couldn't train Tyson.....so without D'amto, tyson fought (mostly bums) all the way to 37-0 before buster wrecked his shit.

It wasn't D'amato it was when Kevin Rooney and Tyson stopped working together that Tyson started looking rough around the edges.

 

[Sunfish]

Tyson was top 5 of his era, Tbe is lol.

 

[burningspear]

We all know the oh! so familiar story. I like to take environment out of the equation. Lets take all the great HWs and have them fight each other on their very best day.
I reckon Mike would do pretty well.

A number of factors fucked his career but at his best - Wow! absolute freak.!!!!

 

[PUO3]

Yes.

 

[Breakfast Bar]

[YT]=EUDogb3zO0U[/YT]

I can't think of a better athlete honestly..

He demonstrates strength, speed, and control over his movement that I just don't see on other athletes. It's perfection.

Tyson came from an era of amazing athletes. Just look at how fast the middle-aged guy throwing jabs with the pads in the fist video is. World class jab speed. And in the second video the guy bobbing his head in the corner has world class head movement.

Either that or you're buying into a bunch of obviously sped up tape.

 

[Breakfast Bar]

Tyson was the best HW of a short period of time (late 80s) and probably the third best HW of his generation. He's arguably a top 10 HW all-time, and almost without (reasonable) argument in the top 15.

He was not, however, the only HW in history to have problems with his trainer or failed relationships with women or to look past his opponents. It's only because he had such a connection with the generation that he grew up with that he's given excuses that no other fighter is given for his losses. He was never unbeatable. He was never going to be the greatest HW of all-time under any manager or promoter or trainer or married to any wife.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Yes.

This^

HW dev never had a Tyson before and still hasnt had one later. I dont wanna say it never will, but we can only hope.
Top 10 HW all time.

 

[StopDucking]

It wasn't D'amato it was when Kevin Rooney and Tyson stopped working together that Tyson started looking rough around the edges.

What this man said. Cus was Tyson's mentor and fatherly figure but Kevin Rooney was the one who trained him.

 

[StopDucking]

We all know the oh! so familiar story. I like to take environment out of the equation. Lets take all the great HWs and have them fight each other on their very best day.
I reckon Mike would do pretty well.

A number of factors fucked his career but at his best - Wow! absolute freak.!!!!

Agreed. Tyson at his peak was bloody good, like Roy Jones Jr. level good.

 

[Vintersorg]

The Tyson that smashed Michael Spinks in a round beats any version of Ali, Frazier, or foreman.

Hardcore boxing fans always have a problem with this, but it's absolutely 100% true. Prime Ali beat guys like Trevor Berbick, but not the way Tyson did. The thing about tyson that throws people off is that he peaked at an age that most great fighters were still amateurs.

Prime Tyson's hardest fights would be prime Lewis and the boring Russian in Decision mode.

Spinks was a blown-up light heavyweight and never really belonged in HW division and his wins against Holmes are impressive, but it was more a style mismatch and Holmes was definitely out of his prime by that point. Tyson's style was something never before or after seen in boxing, but that doesn't mean he would have won against the best competition. Tyson was absolutely spectacular, but he faced relatively weak competition and most of his fights were won before the bell rang.

Muhammad Ali fought in the strongest heavyweight era in history and back then large majority of guys were hungry and a lot of the fights were real fucking wars. Joe Frazier was a relatively small heavyweight, half-blind on one eye, he could never fully straighten his left arm due to injury and he had high blood pressure, and he was still able to KO bigger and taller guys. Sure, they all fought for money but most of the fighters back walked the walk too and gave their best in the ring. Muhammad Ali fought top competition and these guys varied in styles, he fought a lot of them past his prime when they were in their prime or not far past their prime and he still won, in spite of style mismatches and his declining physical abilities. He lost his speed and his reflexes were not as good, but he relied on his courage, granite chin and cleverness to win fights. There is absolutely no comparison between Tyson's and Ali's mental strength, because Tyson loses any given day.

I love Mike Tyson and his style was beyond spectacular, I am also glad that he's doing well in life and even in his early career he was a nice guy and it was obvious he was manipulated by the vultures around him. However, mental strength and the ability to adapt are as important as any aspect of your fighting style. Only version of George Foreman Tyson would have ever been able to beat is the post-Ali loss Foreman. I believe prime Tyson would have about 1% chance to beat young pre-Ali fight Foreman(fearless big bear mauling his opponents to death with wild punches) and he'd have about 5% chance to beat the 40+ wise. patient and clever George Foreman. Even a prime Tyson had problems with taller guys who didn't fear him, I don't even want to imagine what Foreman would have done to him if they had faced each other.

 

[robjenkins2]

His defense was never the same after Cus died and he stopped working with Rooney.