Was the US ever meant to be a single country ?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Coffee79, Mar 1, 2016.

  1. Coffee79

    Coffee79 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I don't believe the Founding Father's intended for America to be a massive, single nation.

    The word state, historically has meant nation - and I believe we are supposed to view ourselves as such. Think about it like this; the US today is bigger than Europe - and in many ways more geographically, culturally, ethnically, and religious diverse than Europe.

    [​IMG]

    It makes no sense for a single Federal government to try and be the overlord of this many people of so many various thoughts and backgrounds.

    If you think about it, if we did return to a more "State's rights" type of system, we would truly have that laboratory of democracy in which states could test certain ideas out and learn what works best. I just feel our Federal Government is way too powerful and weilds to much influence on state policy.
     
  2. PolishHeadlock

    PolishHeadlock Putin Belt Platinum Member

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    If they wanted what you described why did they scrap the Articles of Confederation for the Constitution?

    Can you point to where states don't have enough power? Aren't we seeing states exert their influence when they turn down Medicare and don't properly implement ACA?
     
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  3. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Was the U.S. ever meant to be a single, large nation? Gosh, that's a hard one. I wish there was some document that made clear if the various states were meant to be governed by a larger overarching Federal government. A document that might spell out exactly how that Federal government is meant to operate and how it's operations would intersect with the states.

    But where would we find such a document?
     
  4. Liquid Smoke

    Liquid Smoke Great artists steal™

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    That was debated heavily at the Constitutional convention. States are supposed to be able to secede at any time. Technically, the Civil War was unconstitutional.
     
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  5. Coffee79

    Coffee79 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    sure; if the people of Virginia wanted to make legal "white/black only businesses," the Feds would step in and deem it un-Constitutional even though there is nothing in the Constitution denying the right of private businesses from doing so.
     
  6. Coffee79

    Coffee79 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Your childish cynicism aside, the current powers of the Federal Government don't seem to be in the spirit upon which our FFs established this country.
     
  7. machidafan99

    machidafan99 Silver Belt

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    The Union was voluntary until Lincoln forced us into a horrible war.
     
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  8. Aegon Spengler

    Aegon Spengler Gold Belt

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    The cult of the "founding fathers" is really very strange.

    These men were rich, slave owning traitors to the British crown who won their rebellion thanks to French ships and French money.

    Who fucking cares what they wanted ?

    Build a rational country. Stop with the rest of the crap
     
  9. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Sure they do. Our FF's understood quite clearly that the nation would grow and change and the role of government would similarly have to grow and change.

    It's why our Constitution is written in terms of what the government can't do and not what it can do. The FF's gave the government the power to do what it needed to do so long as it didn't cross certain lines.

    And as far as a diverse population is concerned, the nation was founded upon on the idea of people from very diverse backgrounds choosing to co-govern. I'm sure to you, in the modern era, the Dutch, Germans, French, British are just "Europeans" but in the era when the nation was founded, they didn't group themselves that way. They didn't speak the same language, follow the same customs and felt that their cultures were completely independent of the cultures of the other nations. That all of those different groups were united under our constitution is a pretty good sign that diversity was always the hallmark of the U.S. Don't confuse the modern delineations that are mostly color based as meaning that all people from Europe saw themselves as cultural equals in the 1700's.

    No different from today, people built cultural enclaves and spoke their native language - French, Spanish, german, dutch, etc. They traded largely within those cultural enclaves and only marginally with others. The Constitution recognized that and the importance of binding those very different cultural groups together through a federal government while still leaving local politics to the locals.
     
  10. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

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    I fucking love that argument, "in the spirit of".

    The document you indirectly reference (The Constitution) doesnt say a goddamn thing you want it to say, so you appeal to the "spirit" of the law like Casper the friendly Amendment came and spelled it out for you.

    Ok buddy, the south will rise again I guess.
     
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  11. PolishHeadlock

    PolishHeadlock Putin Belt Platinum Member

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    You have another countries monarch on your money.
     
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  12. jefferz

    jefferz Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    France?
     
  13. Coffee79

    Coffee79 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Ah, the predictable race card. Too bad for you I'm not white - huh ?
     
  14. Fawlty

    Fawlty Gay for Mayor Pete

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    Please learn about the founding of our country. And then learn what cynicism means.
     
  15. RockstarChris

    RockstarChris Dwight Belt Banned

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    USA is supposed to be 50 independent states that have a Federal Government that protects the states militarily. The Federal Government was never designed to rule the USA but has become that through political corruption.

    When being a politician becomes a career the politicians focus on staying politicians. I don't blame them. When you have a job you want to keep that job. It is, however, not supposed to be a job.

    Trump 2016.

    He doesn't need money or really care what you think of him, he just wants to help our country in the last years of his life. Nothing more selfless than that.
     
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  16. Falsedawn

    Falsedawn Mansa Platinum Member

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    You posted a thread about whether or not the US should be a country, played the "states rights" card, and liked a post that not only insinuated that states were supposed to have the right to secede "by the spirit of the law" (topkek) but that the Civil War was illegal.

    I'm not calling you a racist, just a mouthbreathing redneck with a tenuous grasp of history. There is a difference, though the fact that you instantly thought I was calling you a racist says a lot more about you than it does me. Freud was right about some things.
     
  17. Coffee79

    Coffee79 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Yet, I voted twice for Obama. I'm a blue dog Dem that has taken the red pill and realized the insanity that is America today. We are not what was intended. The idea of states rights seems lost today.
     
  18. Aegon Spengler

    Aegon Spengler Gold Belt

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    That's our choice. If we'd surrendered in 1812 instead of driving the Americans out we'd have Andrew Jackson on our money, someone who tried to conquer us.
     
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  19. 7437

    7437 Gold Belt

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    The document that you describe could even say something like

    If such a document exists.
     
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  20. Bukowski82

    Bukowski82 Buckle up belt

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    lol, scorched.
     

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