Was reading a 5x5 tutorial the other day

[jerryseinfeld]

Forget who it was by, some strength coach, who basically said lsd cardio was actually bad for fat burning, anyone agree with this? sounded a little suspect to me.

 

[Jake Martin]

Most will agree that for burning fat, HIIT is way superior. LSD also tends to hinder strength bulding progress, which is another reason a 5x5 tutorial would be against it.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

Most will agree that for burning fat, HIIT is way superior. LSD also tends to hinder strength bulding progress, which is another reason a 5x5 tutorial would be against it.

I'd agree with this. LSD isn't useless but in general intense workouts like HIIT are generally regarded as superior.

 

[jerryseinfeld]

cool, i'll take that into account.

 

[Gov]

The battle between LSD and HIIT is an ongoing one, and everyone seems to have their own POV or bias. I lean more towards the HIIT end, but I'd always include some LSD in my week simply because it provides an excellent base for further conditioning, and provides a nice change from constant ball tearing workouts.

 

[TGR74]

I think the blur comes from the extremes.

If you have done HIIT you know it is a killer.

If you jogged as slow as you possibly could...slow enough someone could almost walk with you..then that is the extreme.

Running though at a pace that pushes greatly against the comfort threshold is a different story. Not all out sprints like HIIT which are explosive but a sub 16 minute 3 mile is also not a light jog although it many just looking at the distance would say 3 miles would be LSD.

The only true reason to do actualy LSD at a snails pace is to build the skeletal and muscular systems to continue to increasing mileage. Or yes burn fat but weight training, HIIT, and diet will also increase fat burning as well. And often time withe better results if used solo.

I run and when i go for distance it is far less than when I try to peg a 3 miler at the fastest pace i can push myself with out collapsing before I finish.

Intensity is a factor that resides within your minds desire for pain.

 

[Donut62]

LSD also tends to hinder strength bulding progress

HIIT will hinder strength gains more if you don't know how to manage recovery. Not that I am endorsing LSD, but not doing it because it will kill lifting performance is kind of silly when a lot of the strongest guys in the world do LSD for recovery purposes on off days.

 

[Vedic]

LSD in studies burns more fat, more efficiently. Yet the people I trained with HIIT leaned out better, go figure. It all works. Everyone reacts different.

 

[Centaur]

....

 

[jerryseinfeld]

so i was reading up on some hiit articles and it says that short bursts(such as 6 seconds with a 9 second recovery period) were better than 30 seconds on/30 seconds off. anyone got an informed opinion on whether this is true or not?

i've done the 30 second burpee/30 second shadow boxing intervals on ross enamaits site and they kicked my ass, but i got good results from them, my cardio especially.

 

[Centaur]

That would be approximate to the "50 meter sprint, 50 meter jog" that a lot of people do. Not exact, but close.

Just as one shouldn't limit their training to LSD or HIIT ( I love how those words often appear together) one should also not limit themselves to on particular kind of HIIT protocol, either.

30 seconds, Tabata, Minute, 1:3 are all good example of HIIT and can be incorporated in a good routine.

 

[jerryseinfeld]

thanks for the info, the reason i asked is because that particular article said that the 6/9 was a MORE effective HIIT exercise than 30 seconds on/off.

 

[jerryseinfeld]

http://www.fitbuff.com/how-to-burn-more-fat-in-less-time-the-secret-to-hiit/

this is the article i'm talking about. any scientific basis for this?

 

[Vedic]

Fat is oxidative, which means oxygen (aerobic) burns it. HIIT produces EPEOC (excessive post exercise oxygen consumption) which means your body will burn more fat with oxygen for longer, but Post Workout.

LSD in the left, Sprinter on the right.


I know which I'd rather be.

Thanks for the lesson I know how systems work.



Low cardio shows a preference for using FFA's for fuel rather than glucose. High intensity exercise OTOH is heavily dependent on glucose.




Also
by Tom McCullough MEd., MSS
"What happens when the intensity of the exercise is increased ->70& VO2 max-? Sure the oxidation rate of FFA increased but lactate production also increases. Lactate decreases the FFA mobilization rate and increases FFA reesterification rate. Carbohydrates then become an increasingly important source of fuel. However, during prolonged sub maximal exercise blood lactate levels are very low, thus not affecting FFA mobilization significantly. Thus, carbohydrates are used much less as a fuel and oxidated fats become the most abundant source of energy"

 

[Vedic]

Bottom line is keep the workouts to less then or equal to 45% VO2 Max for the best fat burning results that wont destroy muscle mass.

Balance of carbohydrate and lipid utilization during exercise: the "crossover" concept

G. A. Brooks and J. Mercier
Department of Human Biodynamics, University of California, Berkeley 94720.

The "crossover" concept represents a theoretical means by which one can understand the effects of exercise intensity and prior endurance training on the balance of carbohydrate (CHO) and lipid ****bolism during sustained exercise. According to the crossover concept, endurance training results in muscular biochemical adaptations that enhance lipid oxidation as well as decrease the sympathetic nervous system responses to given submaximal exercise stresses. These adaptations promote lipid oxidation during mild- to moderate-intensity exercise. In contrast, increases in exercise intensity are conceived to increase contraction-induced muscle glycogenolysis, alter the pattern of fiber type recruitment, and increase sympathetic nervous system activity. Therefore the pattern of substrate utilization in an individual at any point in time depends on the interaction between exercise intensity-induced responses (which increase CHO utilization) and endurance training-induced responses (which promote lipid oxidation). The crossover point is the power output at which energy from CHO-derived fuels predominates over energy from lipids, with further increases in power eliciting a relative increment in CHO utilization and a decrement in lipid oxidation. The contemporary literature contains data indicating that, after endurance training, exercise at low intensities (< or = 45% maximal O2 uptake) is accomplished with lipid as the main substrate. In contrast, the literature also contains reports that are interpreted to indicate that during hard-intensity exercise (approximately 75% maximal O2 uptake) CHO is the predominant substrate. Seen within the context of the crossover concept these apparently divergent results are, in fact, consistent.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)




Fatty acid oxidation is directly regulated by carbohydrate ****bolism during exercise
E. F. Coyle, A. E. Jeukendrup, A. J. Wagenmakers and W. H. Saris
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

We determined whether increased glycolytic flux from hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia directly reduces fatty acid oxidation during exercise. Fatty acid oxidation rates were measured during constant-rate intravenous infusion of trace amounts of a long-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]palmitate; Pal) vs. a medium-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]octanoate; Oct). Six endurance-trained men cycled for 40 min at 50% of maximal O2 uptake 1) after an overnight fast ("fasting") and 2) after ingestion of 1.4 g/kg of glucose at 60 min and again 10 min before exercise (Glc). Glc caused hyperinsulinemia, a preexercise blood glucose of 6 mM, and a 34% reduction in total fat oxidation during exercise due to an approximately equal reduction in oxidation of plasma-free fatty acids (FFA) and intramuscular triglycerides (all P < 0.05). Oxidation of Pal was significantly reduced during Glc compared with fast (i.e., 70.0 +/- 4.1 vs. 86.0 +/- 1.9% of tracer infusion rate; P < 0.05). However, Glc had no effect on Oct oxidation, which is apparently not limited by mitochondrial transport. Furthermore, Glc reduced plasma FFA appearance 36% (P < 0.05), indicating a coordination of effects on adipose tissue and muscle. In summary, substrate oxidation during exercise can be regulated by increased glycolytic flux that is accompanied by a direct inhibition of long-chain fatty acid oxidation. These observations indicate that carbohydrate availability can directly regulate fat oxidation during exercise.

 

[Odhinnfist]

Coach?

 

[Vedic]

Nope

 

[Centaur]

Thanks for the lesson I know how systems work.



Low cardio shows a preference for using FFA's for fuel rather than glucose. High intensity exercise OTOH is heavily dependent on glucose.

I wasn't trying to give a lesson, just further the discussion. I'm glad you know how systems work, save that sarcastic responses for the HW's.

 

[Vedic]

No sarcasm. But the information you gave was incorrect.

 

[Centaur]

OK, so HIIT doesn't produce a higher resting ****bolic rate due to Epoc?

I was reading this the other day:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8028502

The impact of two different modes of training on body fatness and skeletal muscle ****bolism was investigated in young adults who were subjected to either a 20-week endurance-training (ET) program (eight men and nine women) or a 15-week high-intensity intermittent-training (HIIT) program (five men and five women). The mean estimated total energy cost of the ET program was 120.4 MJ, whereas the corresponding value for the HIIT program was 57.9 MJ. Despite its lower energy cost, the HIIT program induced a more pronounced reduction in subcutaneous adiposity compared with the ET program. When corrected for the energy cost of training, the decrease in the sum of six subcutaneous skinfolds induced by the HIIT program was ninefold greater than by the ET program. Muscle biopsies obtained in the vastus lateralis before and after training showed that both training programs increased similarly the level of the citric acid cycle enzymatic marker. On the other hand, the activity of muscle glycolytic enzymes was increased by the HIIT program, whereas a decrease was observed following the ET program. The enhancing effect of training on muscle 3-hydroxyacyl coenzyme A dehydrogenase (HADH) enzyme activity, a marker of the activity of beta-oxidation, was significantly greater after the HIIT program. In conclusion, these results reinforce the notion that for a given level of energy expenditure, vigorous exercise favors negative energy and lipid balance to a greater extent than exercise of low to moderate intensity. Moreover, the ****bolic adaptations taking place in the skeletal muscle in response to the HIIT program appear to favor the process of lipid oxidation.

To be completely honest, some of this is a little over my head, but the conclusion seemed to supports the info I gave in my first post. Maybe I misinterpreted something. If so, it would be great if you could correct it (in a way I understand

Thanks!