Was Ned Stark correct...

[Osculater]

True story. I read it in some almanac.

At one convent the nuns asked their abbot why women were not allowed to absolve/receive confessions. He gave them a test, if they passed it, he'd allow it.

He gave them a box and told them not to open it for one day.

The whole day the nuns wondered what was in there. Their curiosity was eating them alive.
After some time they did open it, and from the box flew out a little sparrow. Apparently, they couldn't put it back.

At the end of the day the abbot asked for the box. When the nuns gave him the opened box, he responded: "Women are not allowed to absolve confessions, because they cannot keep secrets."

P.s. Catelyn Tully was a dumb, angry, vindictive, and unresonable person.

Ned did right by not telling her. He saved himself some years of living.

"These nuns ain't loyal"

 

[LEWIS540]

Her actions lead to 1000s of deaths?
Her dumb impulsive brother Brandon couldn't accept the idea that his little sis was a slut who had a crush and wanted the D and rode into kings landing, sword bare, demanding Rhaegar come out and die.

I ain't a rocket scientist.....but if my sister was last seen with Bashar Al-Assad and had disappeared, I'm not sure riding into Hafez Al-Assad's court with an AK47 in my hands shouting for the heir to come out and die in front of everyone would be my play.

By the time Ned knew what had happened, the war was over. What good does it do to let an innocent child die over his lineage? Especially when you can raise him and nobody will ever know if you keep your mouth shut? You save a life, and all it cost is other people's view of your honor. And in reality, honor is self reflection and what others think doesn't mean shit.

Quorin Halfhand said the same shit to Jon when Jon balked at the idea of defecting to the wildlings because others will think he is a traitor. "Our honor means no more than our lives if it is in defense of the wall"

Yes, her brother’s reaction was to her action.

In that society, a man, royalty or not, kidnapping your 14 year old sister, who was bequeathed to another, was a massive insult, and whilst Brandon’s reaction was impulsive and dumb it was absolutely not an overreaction.

You equating it to a modern day hypothetical is silly.


As said several times, this one situation isn’t why I think Ned wasn’t as shiny white as you simps do.

 

[ChosenOne]

I’m saying that everything that happens in the saga has the catalyst of Lyanna/Rhaegar being selfish.

Of course if Jon’s identify was never hidden by Eddard, the entire story post Robert’s rebellion would have been very different. Might well have had a Baratheon vs Stark war. As I said he was in a no win situation.

This one situation isn’t why I question Ned’s “whiter than white” honorable reputation. He clearly tries to be a good man etc etc…..I’m saying the entire structure of that society (based on the English feudal system) was highly egregious, even if Ned was one of the fairer Lords he is still very much apart of the problem.

Obviously from the point of view of the story it’s how life is, not Ned’s fault, but in reality all the people in power abuse their status. “Come join us in rebelling against the king, or face the consequences” type thing.

so this point also, seems to be core to LEWIS' view...

"...This one situation isn’t why I question Ned’s “whiter than white” honorable reputation. He clearly tries to be a good man etc etc…..I’m saying the entire structure of that society (based on the English feudal system) was highly egregious, even if Ned was one of the fairer Lords he is still very much apart of the problem...."

He is pushing the idea that individuals are guilty for the abuses of the system they live in, and even if they personally do not do anything bad, if the society, as a whole is bad, then they are bad.

 

[Halifax]

Yes, her brother’s reaction was to her action.

In that society, a man, royalty or not, kidnapping your 14 year old sister, who was bequeathed to another, was a massive insult, and whilst Brandon’s reaction was impulsive and dumb it was absolutely not an overreaction.

You equating it to a modern day hypothetical is silly.


As said several times, this one situation isn’t why I think Ned wasn’t as shiny white as you simps do.

By the time Ned knew what had happened, the war was over. What good does it do to let an innocent child die over his lineage?

In the end, impulsive dumbass started the war. You don't threaten to kill the heir to the throne, who can fuck whoever he wants, in any era.

 

[LEWIS540]

By the time Ned knew what had happened, the war was over. What good does it do to let an innocent child die over his lineage?

In the end, impulsive dumbass started the war. You don't threaten to kill the heir to the throne, who can fuck whoever he wants, in any era.

Learn to read, maybe pal.

 

[Halifax]

Learn to read, maybe pal.

I did, and you said...

Well keeping that promise to a girl who's actions had led to 1000s of deaths, meant that 20 years later 1000s more had to die, too.

Protecting the secrets of your family at the cost of so much death and suffering of others, doesn't sound particularly noble to me.

Jaime breaking his oath, and sacrificing his honour, to do the right thing seems a lot more noble to me.......not that he did not also do some crap to protect his own family, too.

Jon surviving had nothing to do with 1000's more dying. The next war started with or without him because....Jaime Lannister. The guy you are claiming is more honorable is the one that started the next great war by fucking his sister and getting her pregnant lol

Jon spends most of the series saving lives at the wall.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Well keeping that promise to a girl who's actions had led to 1000s of deaths, meant that 20 years later 1000s more had to die, too.

What are you talking about? Ned protecting the truth about Jon’s lineage never cause anyone’s deaths. The War of the Five Kings was a successor ship war following Robert‘s death between the forces of Joffrey Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Renly Baratheon, Robb Stark and Balon Greyjoy.

Literally had nothing at all to do with Ned protecting Jon and keeping his promise to Lyanna.

 

[rivera]

Catelyn couldn’t know, even when he realized he could fully trust her - she would never value him over her own children and his mere existence threatened the lives of the entire family (at least that’s what Ned believed and she would have).

She made several bad decisions when the welfare of her children were at stake, Jon would have been in danger had she known.

The better decision, and probably mentioned in this thread, would be to foster him with Howland Reed who is probably the only other one that knows the truth, besides maybe Benjen.

 

[LEWIS540]

What are you talking about? Ned protecting the truth about Jon’s lineage never cause anyone’s deaths. The War of the Five Kings was a successor ship war following Robert‘s death between the forces of Joffrey Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Renly Baratheon, Robb Stark and Balon Greyjoy.

Literally had nothing at all to do with Ned protecting Jon and keeping his promise to Lyanna.

Read.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Read.

Read what? I don’t see any explanation in the rest of the post I quoted or any of your other posts in this thread with respect to this specific statement. How did Ned keeping his promise to Lyanna cost any lives whatsoever?

 

[HHJ]

It was the right move. No one would have ever suspected that, under those circumstances. No one ever did. It was found out, basically by accident.

 

[ChosenOne]

Read.

Read what? I don’t see any explanation in the rest of the post I quoted or any of your other posts in this thread with respect to this specific statement. How did Ned keeping his promise to Lyanna cost any lives whatsoever?

Lewis does not explain himself or defend his positions as you will see in his non replies to MadMack and myself above and now you.

I had a similar engagement with him in another thread. He simply thinks his positions are correct and not to be questioned.

I don't think he gets this 'chat forum' thing.

 

[freakroor]

NO. Honesty and open communication are the keys to a good relationship and fulfilling life

 

[Madmick]

Yeah, I'm not reading that.

But intent and ignorance is not an excuse. If your actions lead to 1000s dying, fuck your best intentions.

On the contrary, intent is the only thing that matters when assessing if someone's motivations are "self-serving".

That is as obvious as can be: it is self-evident.