Was Jon Jones ever really that good?

[Sakurabaism]

As someone who doesn't recognizes Jon as one of the GOATS, he's a naturally great fighter which is a shame how he's trying to masked his insecurities with PEDs because I believe without any of that shit he could still be one of the best.

 

[Dog Gynecologist]

He beat Shogun, Lyoto Machida, Rashad Evans, Rampage, 4 of his predecessor. I guess they were all washed up.

 

[louiscyphere]

Obviously he's been juiced his entire career but I feel like his last two fights have also exposed his one-dimensional skills.

People always said he can only beat old guys or blown up MWs but I think they have a point.

Reyes is tall and can box well, these two things alone seem to give Jon fits just like Gus did.

Not saying he is a bad fighter or anything but he certainly isn't close to GSP even if you ignore his roid busts.

Great thread, I’d argue he was always overrated, king of an incredibly weak division, kind of like Mighty Mouse and Shevchenko. He’s obviously got some skills but who has he beat? A bunch of washed up bums that continued to be bums after he squeaked by them by injecting anabolic steroids daily. I’m literally struggling to think of a good fighter he’s faced ummmmm...Hamill? Bum. Shogun? Bum. Machida? He almost lost to PENN at HW ffs. Bader? Had to go to bellator to fight cans, Vitor? Old steroid junkie. Chael almost beat him, Gus almost beat him, he’s objectively lost his last two fights. I dunno man it seems as though jones might be the worst/most overrated champ of all time.

 

[louiscyphere]

He beat Shogun, Lyoto Machida, Rashad Evans, Rampage, 4 of his predecessor. I guess they were all washed up.

Yes they were. Did any of them challenge for the title again? No. If they were any good they would have climbed the ranks and challenged for the title again.

 

[Chet Ubetcha]

GTFO.

Go.

There's the door... -->

 

[krelianx]

He was before he came back from his PED suspensions and stopped pissing hot.

When 4/5 of your performances under enhanced testing that you didn't piss hot were unquestionably the worst of your career, with two controversial decisions, it takes a pretty blind person not to see what is up.

 

[ocean size]

Obviously he's been juiced his entire career but I feel like his last two fights have also exposed his one-dimensional skills.

People always said he can only beat old guys or blown up MWs but I think they have a point.

Reyes is tall and can box well, these two things alone seem to give Jon fits just like Gus did.

Not saying he is a bad fighter or anything but he certainly isn't close to GSP even if you ignore his roid busts.

I dislike Jones in a number of ways and have rooted against him in every fight. But I think you are a new fan if you don't think Jones is 'that good'. Jones fucking murdered a who's who of people that also used PEDs. He often did it without immediately targetting their weaknesses. Part of the recipe is his frame, sure, and part of it which really annoys me is the Greg Jackson bullshit like oblique kicks and extending the eye pokers when retreating, but yeah - go watch Shogun, Machida, etc. Gus gave him a good run and I thought Gus won that fight, but look what happened the next time - Jones has incredible creativity and ability to adapt, both between fights but also during them.

 

[grimballer]

Jones 1st title fight:

Gsp 1st title fight:

jones 1st title defence:

gsp 1st title defence:

Let’s not kid ourselves

jones > gsp

 

[Dog Gynecologist]

Yes they were. Did any of them challenge for the title again? No. If they were any good they would have climbed the ranks and challenged for the title again.

You mean the only valuable contender are those a champion fight 2 times ? That's really restrictive.
LHW was not the worst division, it's not a shame not being able to climb back the ranking.
I agree with Rampage being washed up and Shogun injured. But Lyoto and Rashad were not washed up, just at the end of their prime.

 

[DivineMind]

DC is his best win lhw is shit

DC, arguably a top 10 fighter of all time, is a shit win?

 

[khabib time]

He's undefeated so...

No he's not.......

He also lost that Reyes bout, the judges got it wrong. If Anthony Smith pulled a "Diego", he had another loss there as well. Leave the GSP stuff, Jones is the only guy to survive USADA (both before and after). Look at some of the other guys....Barao, Aldo, Dillashaw, GSP (left the sport except to pick of the weakest MW champion ever), Weidman, Rockhold and many more.

 

[ThoseAreMyShoes]

Counter argument. GSP always looked a bit suspect and disappeared after getting battered by a blown up light weight.

 

[snackgod]

Obviously he's been juiced his entire career but I feel like his last two fights have also exposed his one-dimensional skills.

People always said he can only beat old guys or blown up MWs but I think they have a point.

Reyes is tall and can box well, these two things alone seem to give Jon fits just like Gus did.

Not saying he is a bad fighter or anything but he certainly isn't close to GSP even if you ignore his roid busts.

jon needed peds to be great

 

[ostlerrage]

Obviously he's been juiced his entire career but I feel like his last two fights have also exposed his one-dimensional skills.

People always said he can only beat old guys or blown up MWs but I think they have a point.

Reyes is tall and can box well, these two things alone seem to give Jon fits just like Gus did.

Not saying he is a bad fighter or anything but he certainly isn't close to GSP even if you ignore his roid busts.

No one will ever know. whats certain is the roids gave him the wins vs dc and gus as they were very close. its possible he might have lost a lot more fights. steroids give you a significant advantage.
We will never know but anyway he has no legacy as he's known as a steroid cheat.

 

[ostlerrage]

Jesus, the hatred is so palpable. He forced some of the greatest LHWs of all time to move down to middle weight in their prime because they knew they'd never sniff the title again while he was champion, and that gets turned into "blown-up MWs." He beats Daniel Cormier easily twice, who then goes on to claim the HW title, and he's only beating on old guys.

Look at the LHW champions after Chuck Liddell

Rampage
Forrest
Evans
Machida
Shogun

He beat four of the previous five champions CONSECUTIVELY to start his LHW champion run. He had essentially cleared the entire LHW division at that point. After that, he fought Prime TRT Vitor and made him look like a child.


THEN to argue that he's ONE DIMENSIONAL??? Jones is about as far from one-dimensional as any champion ever. His submission grappling is amazing, his ground and pound is disgusting to watch, his striking is very unique (some would argue cheap, but I'll just use the word "unique"). He's extremely innovative. Your post is founded in such a crazy amount of ignorance.

Newsflash. Jones juiced his way to the title.

 

[Larzon]

As someone who hates the shit cunt....yes he is that good. Truly awful human tho

 

[kflo]

No one will ever know. whats certain is the roids gave him the wins vs dc and gus as they were very close. its possible he might have lost a lot more fights. steroids give you a significant advantage.
We will never know but anyway he has no legacy as he's known as a steroid cheat.

Gus? Lol.

dc fight he had traces of m3 right before the fight, 3 weeks after 2 samples with no traces. Tell me the effective doping protocol that would lead to that result?

 

[S U I H C U L A C C I]

 

[Dennis Lecker]

He's undefeated so...

No, he's not undefeated. Gus beat him, Santos beat him and Reyes beat him.

 

[Broad Blade]

He got triggered alot and steamed mad profusely against Ariel way back when...