was it the decline or better competition?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by karateisundratd, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. karateisundratd

    karateisundratd Blue Belt

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    Guys I started this threas bcoz of that other Fedor's striking thread, was just thinking about Pride's HW s and current crop. Fedor, Nogueira and Crocop were the elite HWs of their time and we have only their fights among each other to have an idea how good they were, Fedor defeated both CroCop and nog both by decision, both came to UFC and Crocop got Koed quite soon, Nog who was never KO/TKOed was by Cain and Mir(who also submitted him). Fedor never fought for UFC but he lost to Strikeforce HW's as well. The top three HW's of old did nt do well against the current crop of elite HW's and I do understand that they were may be not at their best but TBH nobody can say for sure that they were better than the current crop. Evidence(scanty or unreliable whatever) says something else and we will never know what would ve happened if Prime Fedor/Crocop would ve fought prime JDS/Cain, Cormier etc, but statements like Fedor had better striking than Silva are just laughable. I am a huge GSP fan but would never claim that he would outsrike Silva, have some dignity guys!
     
  2. Balli

    Balli You Da Best Balli Da Best

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    Better competition.

    Trust the join date. I watched Fedor through his whole career, unlike anybody else who will post in this thread. Guaranteed.
     
  3. alpharowe3

    alpharowe3 Red Belt

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    bigfoot, hendo, and werdum are better competition than nog & cc? and 10 years of fighting didn't make him decline? so 2004 fedor is just as good as 2010 fedor?
     
  4. karateisundratd

    karateisundratd Blue Belt

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    Werdum definitely has better standup these days than Nog has ever had. How do u judge Crocop? He was good in Pride but dint do well at all in the UFC!
     
  5. Byron Carter

    Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    A mix of both.
     
  6. JonesBones

    JonesBones Excuse my contraflow

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    And better guard. People thought Fedor was safe on the ground because he beat up Nog there and never really got into trouble. Nog was also overrated while we're on the subject. He usually only subbed clueless strikers and wrestlers like Mark Coleman. Same with Fedor as a matter of fact. Really no wrestlers with sub defense were around at that time.
     
  7. Balli

    Balli You Da Best Balli Da Best

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    Werdum didn't need his stand up vs Fedor. As we ALL KNOW, the ground game is the first thing to go in a fighter. That's the only reason Fedor lost.... right.
     
  8. jetgyro

    jetgyro White Belt

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    They got old. They did well against the UFC fighters of the same era. Fedor bear Arlovski and Sylvia who were at the time still considered top 5. Noguira beat Couture.

    Where are the other fighters that were great during their time? Wanderlei, Jackson, Shogun, Sakuraba, Ortiz, Liddell, Hughes, B.J. They are all retired or on the decline. Only Henderson is still going strong but even he is not as good as he used to be.

    Sure, the competition is better but if the great fighters of the past fought now, they would be using the current training methods and PEDs. They would still be great.
     
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  9. jmk1502

    jmk1502 Brown Belt

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    There IS better comp. at the top level in HW today, but that doesn't diminish Fedor's ranking as the GOAT. Crocop and Nog WERE the dominant HW fighters, next to Fedor, for 5 years. Fedor from 2003-2006 or 2007 would be a favorite, and for good reason, against any HW in MMA history, now or ever.
     
  10. KJardine_Fan

    KJardine_Fan Purple Belt

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    CC and Nog had been fighting a while when they got to the UFC.
     
  11. Balli

    Balli You Da Best Balli Da Best

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    So had Frank Mir.
     
  12. Pterodactyl

    Pterodactyl Brown Belt

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    Do you honestly believe that Fedor would have lost consecutive fights to Werdum, Silva, and Henderson in 2004?

    It is very clear that Nog, Fedor, and Mirko declined physically, AND the sport evolved to a higher level of competition. You are delusional if you think any of these three men looked or fought in 2010 as they did during the early/middle part of the decade.
     
  13. Brunodf

    Brunodf Yellow Belt

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  14. Balli

    Balli You Da Best Balli Da Best

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    Werdum was also fighting in 2004. So was Henderson. So was Mir. Everyone gets older. That isn't an excuse reserved exclusively for Fedor and Crocop, though. Well, around here it is.
     
  15. Pirroh

    Pirroh Black Belt

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    ITT: Revisionist History.
     
  16. Pterodactyl

    Pterodactyl Brown Belt

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    Well said.
     
  17. Pterodactyl

    Pterodactyl Brown Belt

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    Obviously, but that doesn't address the question.

    Do you honestly think that Fedor fought at the same level in 2010 as he did in 2004? Do you think he looked the same physically?
     
  18. wwedanawhite

    wwedanawhite Black Belt

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    Both, i love fedor, but i always thought a guy like lesnar, big foot and Cain would be to much for him, he vs'd wrestlers, but he never vs'd big wrestlers with legit top games, Cro Cops my hero, but he's vastly overrated, he was really good at a couple of things that many people didn't properly figure out, tho with his athleticism, if he were to actually have trained somewhere other then his garage or very average gym, he could have been soooo much more
     
  19. boron gracie

    boron gracie Brown Belt

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    belfort, anderson were fighting since 1997, fighters born in 70s, cormier, werdum, barnett, mir, nog, russow, big foot (all still top10 per sherdog), then we have top20, hunt, kongo, barry, lavar, tons of others born in 70s hws.

    synopsis: competition got better, some fighters evolved some didnt, some literally got old like couture at 45+ and liddell at 40+. cop/wand/fedor were 32-34 when they "lost" their prime.
     
  20. DesertStomper**

    DesertStomper** Banned Banned

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    Like any of these type of questions, the real answer lies in the middle.

    It was a bit of both. Very, very few fighters are still in their prime after 10 years of fighting.
     

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