Ward talking retirement instead of rematch with Kovalev

[JayE]

???

Kovalev is a borderline great fighter who fought a very close fight against Ward. No one on this board aside from the Slavophiles saw Kova as unbeatable.

 

[mozfonky]

i'm in the minority but I didn't think either guy looked great, i think they can both do a lot better. The fight was just ok, Kov gave it away more than anything. Legitimate gripe that the champion should get the benefit of the doubt, just always been the way it is, but kov just wasn't in condition to win even two more rounds.

 

[JayE]

i'm in the minority but I didn't think either guy looked great, i think they can both do a lot better. The fight was just ok, Kov gave it away more than anything. Legitimate gripe that the champion should get the benefit of the doubt, just always been the way it is, but kov just wasn't in condition to win even two more rounds.

It's a funny thing. We keep getting told every single aspect of athletics is getting improved upon (and I'm not even appealing to steroids or other PEDs), but there aren't many guys who can go a proper 12, let alone 15. Maybe, just maybe, training hasn't actually progressed as much as we think.

I know hockey is a great example of this masquerade.

 

[mozfonky]

i just think folks ain't hungry as they used to be, when i was around mma'rs, i was honestly disgusted with the work ethic. Just look at how many punches were thrown in many fight in the 80's and compare it with todays fighters, not to many can compare. I was watching ward work on the bag, hell, i've seen 15 year old kids work harder.

 

[JayE]

i just think folks ain't hungry as they used to be, when i was around mma'rs, i was honestly disgusted with the work ethic. Just look at how many punches were thrown in many fight in the 80's and compare it with todays fighters, not to many can compare. I was watching ward work on the bag, hell, i've seen 15 year old kids work harder.

Moz, I think you can allow that Ward might not show his shit to the camera. I know Sinister has confirmed in the past that Mayweather only showed small amounts of his camp to the camera.

 

[mozfonky]

naw, i doubt it, working on the bag is working on the bag, nothing mysterious. he didn't do much more in the fight either. I must say that the euros and other folks, asians are still hungry, which is why i was a bit surprised by kov's output. I don't know what the numbers were in the hopkins fight but they had to be higher.

 

[JayE]

naw, i doubt it, working on the bag is working on the bag, nothing mysterious. he didn't do much more in the fight either. I must say that the euros and other folks, asians are still hungry, which is why i was a bit surprised by kov's output. I don't know what the numbers were in the hopkins fight but they had to be higher.

I mean, Hopkins played pure defence after a certain point because he was goddman near 50. Ward fought back, backed him up at times, roughed him up on the inside, and won the fight. Moz, I think you expect greatness at every point. There aren't that many LHWs in history who would have shown that much better against either man. Just because Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and Bob Foster would KO the both of them doesn't mean they're shit.

 

[mozfonky]

ya, hopkins wasn't doing anything but kov was still more active. I still think if he'd fought like that he'd have won, ward didn't do that much either. I think kov wins a rematch. I don't expect greatness at all, just more than those guys showed, it's the reason i don't follow the sport much these days, i've been spoiled by the guys in the past, these guys today dissapoint me. The sport needs and deserves more.

 

[JayE]

ya, hopkins wasn't doing anything but kov was still more active. I still think if he'd fought like that he'd have won, ward didn't do that much either. I think kov wins a rematch. I don't expect greatness at all, just more than those guys showed, it's the reason i don't follow the sport much these days, i've been spoiled by the guys in the past, these guys today dissapoint me. The sport needs and deserves more.

You're not wrong that we do deserve more to a point. I think that someone like Ward has a bit more than he showed and that he'll win a bit clearer next time. I think you underestimate Kovalev if you think he's not too much. He has real power and he has real boxing skill from a certain range. Neither Ward nor Kovalev would do too bad in any era, but they wouldn't dominate, obviously.

 

[mozfonky]

i think kov wins a rematch, unless he's just so stubborn that he can't do anything different. Ward barely won that one and i also can't forget how he fought scared for half the fight, kov gave it away.

 

[JayE]

i think kov wins a rematch, unless he's just so stubborn that he can't do anything different. Ward barely won that one and i also can't forget how he fought scared for half the fight, kov gave it away.

I don't know. Kovalev is always a problem from a certain range, but I think Ward learned that range relatively well. Is he going to have that same success early when Ward is dry to carry him through the rest of the fight? It's not like he threw much really fatigue himself. Is he ever going to figure out how to handle Ward on the inside? I doubt it. Is he going to learn that much extra stamina? I doubt it. It's always going to be a close fight, but I think the wind is blowing in Ward's favour.

 

[mozfonky]

it'll be interesting, i don't see ward having good intangibles. Kov is limited, very limited but all he has to do is throw more and be in better condition. John Jackson should chew some more ass in the corner as well.

 

[JayE]

it'll be interesting, i don't see ward having good intangibles. Kov is limited, very limited but all he has to do is throw more and be in better condition. John Jackson should chew some more ass in the corner as well.

There have been interviews since which suggest he doesn't give two fucks what any American coach says. Whether or not they're mistranslated is not something I know, but he said this according to one translation (note, this is not my translation, I can't speak Russian, my friend told me about this a few days ago, and it might be complete bullshit):

I've never used practics and tactics of US coaches; if I gotta be honest, they're all zeroes over there. Some think about them like they're the best. These some are wrong. They take a towel, put it over the shoulder and think they're trainers. You got to be a teacher. Maybe I didn't go to college all that long but I learned some about teaching there and I learned some while having my boxing career. You got to understand what amount of training can one sustain up the mountains or after the time zone change. Not everyone is a terminator but every other condition coach thinks they are and they train them the same way not even thinking about one's limits and possibilities or any other factors affecting the training.

Source:https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/com..._an_honest_interview/?st=iwt32sj9&sh=cf20835b

 

[mozfonky]

so, he's saying he has no respect for jackson? He seemed to listen when he fought hopkins. He shouldn't have someone in his corner that he doesn't respect if that's the case. He seems stubborn so if that's the case, the second fight will only be a continuation of the first and he'll lose worse. It's never a good sign when a guy doesn't acknowledge he needs to adjust.

 

[JayE]

so, he's saying he has no respect for jackson? He seemed to listen when he fought hopkins. He shouldn't have someone in his corner that he doesn't respect if that's the case. He seems stubborn so if that's the case, the second fight will only be a continuation of the first and he'll lose worse. It's never a good sign when a guy doesn't acknowledge he needs to adjust.

Again, don't take it as gospel because I haven't confirmed it's true, but a guy I know told me about it, and apparently it's seen some attention online (fuck anything to do with reddit, though, I don't trust it). Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. He only came to America because he felt ripped off in Russia in the amateurs and felt he would never get a fair shake there. I don't mean to bring race up, but he's clearly said he doesn't trust people of a certain skin tone, and we know what skin tone his camp has. It's up to Kovalev.

We have a lot of examples of extremely talented Russians who have sputtered out in the NHL because they didn't care to adjust. Shit, it's not the same thing, but if any of that is true, he's doing himself a massive disservice by not listening to his coaches. Whatever he thinks, Russian boxing has proved shit all on the world stage of professional boxing, and if he thinks he's special he can sit in Russia and think high of himself with no money and no belts.

It's a Russian fan of Kovalev translating a Russian interview into English. Again, not a Russian speaker, so I don't know.

 

[mozfonky]

if he doesn't respect his coach, he should find someone he can respect. Jackson is a smart boxing guy, someone who knows his stuff because he's been in there. There are lots of BS trainers but i don't think Jackson is one of them. These guys from overseas would do themselves a lot of good by studying american boxing and using it whenever they need to. Too many of these guys are one dimensional.

 

[JayE]

if he doesn't respect his coach, he should find someone he can respect. Jackson is a smart boxing guy, someone who knows his stuff because he's been in there. There are lots of BS trainers but i don't think Jackson is one of them. These guys from overseas would do themselves a lot of good by studying american boxing and using it whenever they need to. Too many of these guys are one dimensional.

If someone like Hopkins trusts him, I don't think we have to worry. Jackson went through all the Philly gym wars and was a world titlist. Again, I think everyone would be surprised how much arrogance goes both ways. There is an excess of arrogance from Americans regarding European boxing, but don't for a second think that everyone coming from an ex-Soviet program necessarily (note that many Russian players do come over with the right attitude and become dominant players in North America in hockey) thinks they have anything to learn from an American. It's made the careers of exceptionally talented hockey players mediocre in North America when they should have been exceptional.

 

[Sakuraba7]

Sounds like he's setting himself up to be the big A-side in the rematch.

I do agree with him though that if he doesn't fight Kovalev, what other fight makes sense? He can take some money makers but there is no one else in the area who anyone thinks poses a problem for Andre. Maybe a Stevenson fight makes sense (though will probably be impossible to make).

The judges give the fight to anybody they know is going to keep the belt on their home soil. Local events means million of dollars into the economy, we're talking licenses, hotels, rent, tourism, and taxes from all of it. That's why Europeans get screwed over because they'll take the belt to Europe. That's why Canelo got all the rounds even though Amir was winning the rounds before he got KO'd.

So whether its American or Mexican, they're going to fight in Vegas and Cali, they're in the State's good grace. Too bad for the other guy.

 

[mozfonky]

not just the euros, i've said many times that Pac is way too one dimensional. He could have been so much better if he'd learned a few other things. That's not just other countries though, lots of fighters just stop growing at a certain point and just like human beings are, just can't change. Being flexible is one of the greatest strengths any one can have. It's what made the great, great. Ali was very limited in so many ways but he could still adapt his very limited style to anyone and not look bad.

 

[mozfonky]

The judges give the fight to anybody they know is going to keep the belt on their home soil. Local events means million of dollars into the economy, we're talking licenses, hotels, rent, tourism, and taxes from all of it. That's why Europeans get screwed over because they'll take the belt to Europe. That's why Canelo got all the rounds even though Amir was winning the rounds before he got KO'd.

So whether its American or Mexican, they're going to fight in Vegas and Cali, they're in the State's good grace. Too bad for the other guy.

alot of the time that's true, kov maybe should have tried to get a fight in europe (maybe he did but Hunter wasn't having it). Only one way to evade the politics and that's a kayo.