Ward-Kovalev fight Nov 19th in Vegas (HBO PPV)

The only PPV boxing match worth spending money on ....................... barring a Pac - Crawford/Broner fight. ........ or the somehwat mythical fall 17 GGG - Canelo
 
Is this going to be the forum for awhile? People bring up Canelo/GGG in completely unrelated threads? That sucks just as much as the fight not happening.
 
Shoemaker said:
Is this going to be the forum for awhile? People bring up Canelo/GGG in completely unrelated threads? That sucks just as much as the fight not happening.
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Canelo? Is that the guy fighting Liam Neeson?
 
Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Agreed. If he'd fight a Top 10 guy then we'd at least get a better clue at where he really stands in the Light Heavyweight division. Sure, risky, but if Ward is so amazing then this really shouldn't be a problem fighting a bottom Top 10 ranked Light Heavy. Going from guys like Smith, Barrera (wasn't rated going into the fight with Ward) and Brand to Kovalev? Even riskier (for Ward).
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Barrera is ranked and was ranked.

Obviously still a far leap from Kovalev.
 
D 1 Wrestler said:
Ward hasn't had a relevant fight in THREE YEARS with super six 5 years ago. I don't know why people are talking like he's the same fighter he was in 2011
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barrera was relevant, unproven but clearly skilled
 
Shoemaker said:
Is this going to be the forum for awhile? People bring up Canelo/GGG in completely unrelated threads? That sucks just as much as the fight not happening.
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ayyy matee, keep yer eye out for hurricane butthurt, it'll be gettin' in the way of us plunderin' boxing booty
 
PUO3 said:
Barrera is ranked and was ranked.

Obviously still a far leap from Kovalev.
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What was Barrera ranked then? According to The RING he wasn't going into the Ward fight (though they meant Top 10). I checked the TBRB's archives as well but they only archive Top 10 ranked fighters. According to BoxRec right now Barrera is ranked #37 at Light Heavyweight (active boxers), obviously this is after losing to Ward in March.

Edit. Not sure what he was actually ranked (not by the IBF) by any other respectable source within the LHW division.
 
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Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Rankings-wise Barrera isn't and that's according to every major list. Last year Chilemba was ranked as the 7th & 8th best Light Heavyweight in the world. Barrera wasn't Top 10, you can check the TBRB's archives to verify that. Chilemba's accomplished more as a pro (both at Super Middleweight & Light Heavyweight) than Barrera has.
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Chilemba has also fought a fair bit longer as a pro than Barrera. I don't mean to say that Barrera is anything special, or that people should have ever thought he was, but we already know that Chilemba is far from anything special, and I think it's fair to assume that Barrera could very well be a better fighter than Chilemba. Why anyone feels the need to argue that Kovalev facing the likes of Chilemba is some statement or great preparation for Ward seems bizarre to me. Neither Chilemba nor Barrera are really anywhere close to the level of Ward or Kovalev, and all of those fights should be seen as nothing more than tuneups for the real challenge in the fall.
 
JayElectra said:
Chilemba has also fought a fair bit longer as a pro than Barrera. I don't mean to say that Barrera is anything special, or that people should have ever thought he was, but we already know that Chilemba is far from anything special, and I think it's fair to assume that Barrera could very well be a better fighter than Chilemba. Why anyone feels the need to argue that Kovalev facing the likes of Chilemba is some statement or great preparation for Ward seems bizarre to me. Neither Chilemba nor Barrera are really anywhere close to the level of Ward or Kovalev, and all of those fights should be seen as nothing more than tuneups for the real challenge in the fall.
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Barrera beat Murat in December before fighting Ward in late March. That made him the IBF's #1 contender but that's a single major sanctioning body's top contender. Yeah, Chilemba has fought longer. At the time Barrera fought Ward though, just three weeks prior, Chilemba was ranked #6 by The RING and was Top 10 ranked also according to the TBRB.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160305065754/http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/light-heavyweight

How is it fair to believe that Barrera is somehow a better fighter than Chilemba? If anything, it'd be the other way around based on experience and professional accomplishments. Barrera beat a washed up Lacy and then beat Murat (his best win in his career). He's had a little more than half the amount of fights Chilemba's had and Chilemba's actually held some decent hardware at Super Middle (IBO title) and Light Heavy (WBC Intl title). You could look at it in reverse with Barrera having many less fights over a shorter career and already making a decent account for himself but experience and overall accomplishments mean more in the end.

Neither is special or on Kovalev's or Ward's level. Nobody is arguing that because it'd be retarded. What I am arguing is that Chilemba has accomplished not only more in his career, with many more fights under his belt, and as a result he was and is still ranked much higher than Barrera. Barrera is ranked 37 in the division right now per BoxRec after losing a decision to Ward, and losing to Ward wouldn't set him back a lot in the rankings (Ward's a Top 3/5 P4P fighter after all). Isaac right now is ranked 13 in the division per BoxRec, that's fringe Top 10 inside the Top 15.

If I cared enough about either guy, especially Barrera, then I'd already know what he was realistically ranked when Ward fought him. I don't, which is why I'm trying to get a better idea. Had he been Top 10, that'd be really easy to find out. Winning an IBF title eliminator doesn't tell us where he was legitimately ranked in the division at the time.
 
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Kovalev's "Man Bag" said:
Barrera beat Murat in December before fighting Ward in late March. That made him the IBF's #1 contender but that's a single major sanctioning body's top contender. Yeah, Chilemba has fought longer. At the time Barrera fought Ward though, just three weeks prior, Chilemba was ranked #6 by The RING and was Top 10 ranked also according to the TBRB.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160305065754/http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/light-heavyweight

How is it fair to believe that Barrera is somehow a better fighter than Chilemba? If anything, it'd be the other way around based on experience and professional accomplishments. Barrera beat a washed up Lacy and then beat Murat (his best win in his career). He's had a little more than half the amount of fights Chilemba's had and Chilemba's actually held some decent hardware at Super Middle (IBO title) and Light Heavy (WBC Intl title). You could look at it in reverse with Barrera having many less fights over a shorter career and already making a decent account for himself but experience and accomplishments mean more in the end.

Neither is special or on Kovalev's or Ward's level. Nobody is arguing that because it'd be retarded. What I am arguing is that Chilemba has accomplished not only more in his career, with far more fights under his belt, and as a result he was and is still ranked much higher than Barrera. Barrera is ranked 37 in the division right now per BoxRec after losing a decision to Ward, and losing to Ward wouldn't set him back a lot in the rankings (Ward's a Top 3/5 P4P fighter after all). Isaac right now is ranked 13 in the division per BoxRec, that's fringe Top 10 inside the Top 15.

If I cared enough about either guy, especially Barrera, then I'd already know what he was realistically ranked when Ward fought him. I don't, which is why I'm trying to get a better idea. Had he been Top 10, that'd be really easy to find out.
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There is such a thing as perceiving a fighter's quality by watching them compete in the ring, and not just looking at their resumes. You don't need to write three paragraphs to convey the point that Chilemba has faced more quality (not that he's beaten any quality fighters) and quantity on his resume. The fact still remains that Chilemba, much like Barrera, lacks any noteworthy wins on his resume (stopping Murat might actually be as relevant as any win on Chilemba's resume). His best results are draws with halfway relevant LHWs or SMWs, and one win over a shot and blown up never-was MW. He's not an opponent that Kovalev deserves shit for given the context, but he's a tuneup fight for Ward, nothing more.
 
JayElectra said:
There is such a thing as perceiving a fighter's quality by watching them compete in the ring, and not just looking at their resumes. You don't need to write three paragraphs to convey the point that Chilemba has faced more quality (not that he's beaten any quality fighters) and quantity on his resume. The fact still remains that Chilemba, much like Barrera, lacks any noteworthy wins on his resume (stopping Murat might actually be as relevant as any win on Chilemba's resume). His best results are draws with halfway relevant LHWs or SMWs, and one win over a shot and blown up never-was MW. He's not an opponent that Kovalev deserves shit for given the context, but he's a tuneup fight for Ward, nothing more.
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Which I understand, and I've talked about it plenty based on merit with rankings and Lomachenko in particular. The difference being Loma already has two world titles in two divisions and is phenomenally talented, so he has more than just perceived ability going for him. However, I don't see what's any more special in Barrera's perceived ability than Chilemba's. He's Cuban with a junor level World Championship dating back 16 years ago with some strong quality wins in that ammy career, I get that. And he's made a decent account for himself so far as a pro too, earning himself a title shot from the IBF if he wanted to take it. Eventually these two could fight and right now both are in house along with Kovalev so it's possible.

I haven't studied either of them much but I wouldn't favor Barrera over Chilemba, at least not right now, and I'd bet that most wouldn't either. BoxRec's hypothetical "What if?" match predictor calculated it 80/20 in favor of Chilemba, which is giving Chilemba far too much worth, but I didn't come up with their formula for the algorithm that they use. It's usually quite inaccurate anyway, especially if you're only looking at the odds.
 
Shoemaker said:
Is this going to be the forum for awhile? People bring up Canelo/GGG in completely unrelated threads? That sucks just as much as the fight not happening.
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Certain posters are going to bring it up constantly.
 
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Im going against the grain and call Kovalev by UD. I feel Ward will be gun shy once he sees Kov is a skilled boxer with power.
 
Hooker-Perez is going to steal the show, sleeper fight.
 


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