War Room Re-evaluation of threat & response to ISIS

[Like A Bas]

I mean this to be separate from the running discussion of ISIS, focusing on a discussion of what our response should be after months of limited air strikes and arming small groups. We had a good discussion last year about what our military response should be. Most people, if I remember correctly, thought the President went in with too soft a touch.



So months have passed and you're the CiC, and you run the military. Do you continue arming terrorists and crossing your fingers that they won't turn on you? Do you keep playing Drone Santa? Do you commit a number of ground troops? Do you stay out of it? And how has your opinion changed from that turning point when the Yazidis were trapped on the mountain last year, if at all?

 

[OldGoat]

Fighting ISIS is fighting a symptom. The disease is an ideological inconsistency between different cultures. Combine that with global inequality and you are always going to have some portion of desperate people who are susceptible to being exploited by local power sources.

What we're doing is raising the costs, reducing the rewards for a few groups. Look at the Mexican cartels. They are just as brutal and just as nasty and they do it for money and power.

With regards to ISIS itself what should we do to mitigate it? You'd have to eliminate the population that produces the fighters and supplies them. Or inflict enough pain on them that they cease. The way people used to fight wars and the way ISIS fights.

 

[burningspear]

Fighting ISIS is fighting a symptom. The disease is an ideological inconsistency between different cultures. Combine that with global inequality and you are always going to have some portion of desperate people who are susceptible to being exploited by local power sources.

Tony Blair is saying its not our fault a power vacuum was created in Iraq and filled by Islamic extremists. Yes Tony, its not our fault, its yours and George's fault.
It would be comical, if it wasn't so fucking tragic.
Pretending foreign policy isn't a major reason for the escalation is ridiculous.

 

[Like A Bas]

With regards to ISIS itself what should we do to mitigate it? You'd have to eliminate the population that produces the fighters and supplies them. Or inflict enough pain on them that they cease. The way people used to fight wars and the way ISIS fights.

Can you be more specific? That could mean anything from genocide to small-scale infiltration & assassination.

 

[MicroBrew]

The West refuses to call out the origin of ISIS's Salafist ideology - Saudi Arabia.

 

[Like A Bas]

The West refuses to call out the origin of ISIS's Salafist ideology - Saudi Arabia.

So, given control of our armed forces, what would you do (generally) in reaction to Islamic State and their branching out into terror cells?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I will friends with the terrorists, and find them another enemy to obliterate. Once that is over, I will pit them against themselves. Then when there is like only one or two left, I can handle the rest.

But in the case of ISIS, I would support Assad, and Iraq and the Kurds with some ground troops. Afterall, we did oust Saddam and open the flood gates.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I dont know, despite all this talk of terrorism on MSM, I dont feel too threatened by it. Eventhough I have lived near NYC most of life, and they did try to bring it down twice, I dont feel like I am in too much danger from Terrorists.

Should I feel any different if I was in the military? I mean since 9/11, how many plots of terrorism that have been slated for US Mainland have they actually stopped?

 

[INTERL0PER]

Sigh.

I have no idea... go back in time a few decades and try to persuade the powers that be not to bomb the fuck out of the middle east over and over again?

These countries have been repeatedly bombed back to the stone age. Is it any surprise that a large of chunk of them have become radicalized extremists? If America had been bombed for decades, I have no doubt that extremist Christian militia would sprout up in the middle of the country and start a holy war.

The whole situation is just beyond fucked and it makes me sad.

 

[LatFlare]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me

This no longer applies to America, the land of opportunity. Now it is appropriated by the Islamists, who take the same people but give them weapons and suicide vests instead. How to respond to this militarliy I have no idea.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The West need to reevaluate their allies and their geopolitical strategy.
Destabilizing regimes in Iraq, Egypt, Libya, and Syria has done nothing but potentiate the terrorism threat.

Call off the dogs on Syria and Iran.
Dump the Wolfowitz Doctrine as our FP and open honest diplomatic relations with countries we have vilified for the past 50 years, while demoting the influence of "allies" like SA and Israel.

To stay on-topic and address the situation from a strictly military pov: support Assad. Help him reclaim Syria.
As payment, and with Russia's negotiated support, force Syria and Iran to work w/ the Saudis & Israel to clean up Iraq: Split it up and own it.

 

[INTERL0PER]

I dont know, despite all this talk of terrorism on MSM, I dont feel too threatened by it. Eventhough I have lived near NYC most of life, and they did try to bring it down twice, I dont feel like I am in too much danger from Terrorists.

Should I feel any different if I was in the military? I mean since 9/11, how many plots of terrorism that have been slated for US Mainland have they actually stopped?

Exactly.

I'm getting so goddamn sick of the constant fear mongering and panic inducing "Terrorism Reports" all over the MSM.

Yes, terrorism is bad. Yes, we should try and stop it... but how about we start to ask why this is all happening? How about we actually take a step back and look at the death toll in perspective? How much danger are we actually in?

The hysteria over the Charlie Hebdo murders is the perfect example. Yes, it was a terrible event... where 12 people died. Fucking twelve. That's not even a blip on the international terror/war radar and yet everyone is losing their minds. Just makes me think of The Joker's speech in The Dark Knight, "A bunch of soldiers die and nobody blinks, but one little Mayor gets killed and everyone loses their minds!"

 

[Orgasmo]

The West refuses to call out the origin of ISIS's Salafist ideology - Saudi Arabia.

To be honest, if the shitty monarchy in Saudi Arabia collapsed tomorrow, that country would turn into Jihadistan even quicker. It's not as simple as calling out the Saudi government. The Saud family is quite afraid of Salafists too, but they have to keep them appeased to stay in power. That whole country and culture are the garbage dump of the world.

Of course, scumbag politicians the West, Gulf States, Turkey and Israel are actually more interested in deposing Assad than actually fighting the ISIS threat. So now we're in this clusterfuck with no way out. As horrible as it is to say it, secular dictators are the best thing that region has to offer (i.e. Iraq and Libya).

 

[Islam Imamate]

So, given control of our armed forces, what would you do (generally) in reaction to Islamic State and their branching out into terror cells?

Its hard to say. Squashing ISIS doesn't get rid of the conditions that spawned it.

The West need to reevaluate their allies and their geopolitical strategy.
Destabilizing regimes in Iraq, Egypt, Libya, and Syria has done nothing but potentiate the terrorism threat.

Call off the dogs on Syria and Iran.
Dump the Wolfowitz Doctrine as our FP and open honest diplomatic relations with countries we have vilified for the past 50 years, while demoting the influence of "allies" like SA and Israel.

This. As far as the Isis problem specifically, I think in the short term it might help if you made a deal with Assad. He offers a bit of his land towards a Kurdish state and then you take bits of Northern Iraq and form a Kurdish state. They've proven themselves to be willing and capable of fighting off extremist.

In exchange for the land Assad gets some help fighting off ISIS in Syria. There's still the mess that is the rest of Iraq though. I guess you could cut that in two, one Shia state and the other Sunni.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Exactly.

I'm getting so goddamn sick of the constant fear mongering and panic inducing "Terrorism Reports" all over the MSM.

Yes, terrorism is bad. Yes, we should try and stop it... but how about we start to ask why this is all happening? How about we actually take a step back and look at the death toll in perspective? How much danger are we actually in?

The hysteria over the Charlie Hebdo murders is the perfect example. Yes, it was a terrible event... where 12 people died. Fucking twelve. That's not even a blip on the international terror/war radar and yet everyone is losing their minds. Just makes me think of The Joker's speech in The Dark Knight, "A bunch of soldiers die and nobody blinks, but one little Mayor gets killed and everyone loses their minds!"

Sure 12 people isn't a lot, especially when compared to the 2,000 Boko Haram killed recently, but what's so unsettling about the Charlie Hebdo attack, the subsequent attack at the deli market, and other attacks like them is that they happened in the West where such violence is atypical. Its scaring people because they feel like the Islamists are bringing the fight to them.

 

[INTERL0PER]

Sure 12 people isn't a lot, especially when compared to the 2,000 Boko Haram killed recently, but what's so unsettling about the Charlie Hebdo attack, the subsequent attack at the deli market, and other attacks like them is that they happened in the West where such violence is atypical. Its scaring people because they feel like the Islamists are bringing the fight to them.

My hope would be that recent events would bring a bit of empathy for what the Middle East has had to deal with for... Well, forever, really. If twelve deaths induces this kind of fear, imagine what decades of war and death can do to a regions psychology.

But no, it's still all "Fear! Panic! Death!" pumped up to absurd levels.

I live in fucking New Zealand, on the bottom of the planet, as far away from the Middle East and America as possible, and yet the fear has invaded us too. I know people legitimately afraid of "the Muslim threat" and they've started eyeing all and any Muslims with suspicion.

It's both sad and terrifying.

If this shit doesn't calm down, then I really fear that this hysteria will culminate in a massive war. Potentially even another World War. I just really hope it doesn't come to that. Although, judging by the constant and consistent tactics of the world media, that seems to be what the powers that be want.

 

[Islam Imamate]

My hope would be that recent events would bring a bit of empathy for what the Middle East has had to deal with for... Well, forever, really. If twelve deaths induces this kind of fear, imagine what decades of war and death can do to a regions psychology.

But no, it's still all "Fear! Panic! Death!" pumped up to absurd levels.

I live in fucking New Zealand, on the bottom of the planet, as far away from the Middle East and America as possible, and yet the fear has invaded us too. I know people legitimately afraid of "the Muslim threat" and they've started eyeing all and any Muslims with suspicion.

It's both sad and terrifying.

If this shit doesn't calm down, then I really fear that this hysteria will culminate in a massive war. Potentially even another World War. I just really hope it doesn't come to that. Although, judging by the constant and consistent tactics of the world media, that seems to be what the powers that be want.

As many have said before, including the guy in my sig, Muslims themselves are the primary victims of Islamic extremism. Unfortunately I don't think it will lead to empathy and I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. It can though, if Muslim communities stand up and not only condone the gunman but go further and say that freedom of speech, even speech that offends them, is important and offensive speech in no warrants violence.

There will still be many people who will have fear and/or disdain for Muslims but something like that would go a long way with many people.

 

[Like A Bas]

The West need to reevaluate their allies and their geopolitical strategy.
Destabilizing regimes in Iraq, Egypt, Libya, and Syria has done nothing but potentiate the terrorism threat.

Call off the dogs on Syria and Iran.
Dump the Wolfowitz Doctrine as our FP and open honest diplomatic relations with countries we have vilified for the past 50 years, while demoting the influence of "allies" like SA and Israel.

To stay on-topic and address the situation from a strictly military pov: support Assad. Help him reclaim Syria.
As payment, and with Russia's negotiated support, force Syria and Iran to work w/ the Saudis & Israel to clean up Iraq: Split it up and own it.

While I can see enormous problems with this and any other solution (welcome to a no-win battle!), it seem sensible and possible, albeit the actions of who would surely be relegated to a single-term "wimp" president, but one I'd respect.

 

[Like A Bas]

Should I feel any different if I was in the military? I mean since 9/11, how many plots of terrorism that have been slated for US Mainland have they actually stopped?

Dozens, maybe hundreds according to unsupported claims by various federal organizations. I don't know how to feel about the claims though.

Being in the military seems to make a lot of people feel differently. For instance, most military personnel were largely supportive of invading Iraq, even without the fabricated evidence. But as the shot-caller, the civilian leader, given Obama's very measured and small response, do you think it was appropriate when looking at IS today?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

While I can see enormous problems with this and any other solution (welcome to a no-win battle!), it seem sensible and possible, albeit the actions of who would surely be relegated to a single-term "wimp" president, but one I'd respect.

Wimpy if a Democrat/ Enlightened if a Republican. Even tho they're using the same playbook, that is exactly how it would be spun.

The biggest obstacle is the propaganda has been laid so deep for so long, it would take a very significant event...or...a deliberate effort over a very long period of time to reverse position.