War Room Lounge v98: “Yes I’m a gangster and I committed that crime.”

[BarryDillon]

Lol that's just a Roy Batty quote , I met my wife when we 19 ( 1989 ) didn't get a chance to sow many oats

1970 in da house !!!!

 

[tonni]

Can't remember who I was discussing the movie with, other than @HereticBD, but I rewatched Joker. I've settled on a few things, most of all that it isn't a great movie but that it's a worthwhile addition to the Batman canon and to American film. In retrospect, as some conservatives like Heretic pointed out, the "incel" angle was really, really blown out of proportion. It's a story about the brutality of austerity on the most vulnerable in society, including the mentally ill and the truly explosive potential of class warfare. In effect, like the Nolan films, I think it fear mongers about left-wing politics more than it lionizes them, but it's not the job of films like that to make helpful political statements.

On the incel angle [spoilers follow], I actually think Phillips makes a statement, whether intentional or not, that really bites back against incel right-wing ideology of commodifying women. There is a longstanding cultural phenomenon that white men see more-attractive black women, particularly poor ones, as universally attainable for even the most unexceptional white men. That, even though the man knows he's less attractive than her, she is within reach, unlike a comparable beautiful white woman. It's pretty blatant racism, where a white man internalizes his whiteness as a positive value and the woman's blackness as a negative value. This was touched on briefly (and this is the only time I can remember it being depicted) by Louis C.K. in Louie when he stalks a black woman who cashed him out at the grocery store. For the first half of the film, with its inexplicably lop-sided love story, it was necessary that the much-more-beautiful young woman be poor and black since her being white (let alone rich and white) would have completely tipped the hand and set off suspicions in the viewer. So, whether Phillips meant to or not, he made a powerful commentary on that phenomenon.

Either way, I think the non-political conservative types were probably right to bitch about the media incel thing.

Overall,
Good:

Photography/cinematography
Homages to previous Batman films (really exceptional job done here)
Social commentary
Inventive new takes on characters and linking together important events​

Bad:

Lack of character development
Not enough internal plot logic
Several unrealistic plot points​

One thing that stood out to me, though, is that Phoenix's performance wasn't that remarkable to me. I think he's an incredible actor, but I didn't think his take was all that nuanced, moving, or captivating. Definitely nowhere close to Ledger's.

I’m completely immune to anything joker related. Bit boring character imo

 

[all caps]

 

[Lubaolong]

Thanks for reposting that EEG thread. Jesus, that was so long ago. Too bad it was only the first few pages. Shame all this stuff was lost.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

I'm sure no American has ever received an Organ from a illegal....

 

[Lubaolong]

I'm sure no American has ever received an Organ from a illegal....

Forget deportation. We have a lot of sick people here.

 

[Prokofievian]

Not everything has to be tuned in. Sometimes you just wanna get wild and listen to some ignorant shit. I have enough rappers with righteous bars, I can fit some gang shit in there too.

Yep. Not everything has to be serious as a heart attack. Look what that perspective did to art music.

 

[Andy Capp]

Whipper snapper

Young'un.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I wish I knew shit posting could be a career when I was younger

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I like how Mnuchin inadvertently called out Kudlow

 

[HockeyBjj]

Can't remember who I was discussing the movie with, other than @HereticBD, but I rewatched Joker. I've settled on a few things, most of all that it isn't a great movie but that it's a worthwhile addition to the Batman canon and to American film. In retrospect, as some conservatives like Heretic pointed out, the "incel" angle was really, really blown out of proportion. It's a story about the brutality of austerity on the most vulnerable in society, including the mentally ill and the truly explosive potential of class warfare. In effect, like the Nolan films, I think it fear mongers about left-wing politics more than it lionizes them, but it's not the job of films like that to make helpful political statements.

On the incel angle [spoilers follow], I actually think Phillips makes a statement, whether intentional or not, that really bites back against incel right-wing ideology of commodifying women. There is a longstanding cultural phenomenon that white men see more-attractive black women, particularly poor ones, as universally attainable for even the most unexceptional white men. That, even though the man knows he's less attractive than her, she is within reach, unlike a comparable beautiful white woman. It's pretty blatant racism, where a white man internalizes his whiteness as a positive value and the woman's blackness as a negative value. This was touched on briefly (and this is the only time I can remember it being depicted) by Louis C.K. in Louie when he stalks a black woman who cashed him out at the grocery store. For the first half of the film, with its inexplicably lop-sided love story, it was necessary that the much-more-beautiful young woman be poor and black since her being white (let alone rich and white) would have completely tipped the hand and set off suspicions in the viewer. So, whether Phillips meant to or not, he made a powerful commentary on that phenomenon.

Either way, I think the non-political conservative types were probably right to bitch about the media incel thing.

Overall,
Good:

Photography/cinematography
Homages to previous Batman films (really exceptional job done here)
Social commentary
Inventive new takes on characters and linking together important events​

Bad:

Lack of character development
Not enough internal plot logic
Several unrealistic plot points​

One thing that stood out to me, though, is that Phoenix's performance wasn't that remarkable to me. I think he's an incredible actor, but I didn't think his take was all that nuanced, moving, or captivating. Definitely nowhere close to Ledger's.

I watched it months later and the political part of it that stood out to me that in hindsight I was surprised media didn't push on, as I didn't see the incel angle hardly at all, is that a mentally ill loser/loner/pathetic person finally felt power and that he had control of his life once he got a gun.

 

[Andy Capp]

I'm bummed I missed out on the whole coffee discussion.
Just to get it off my chest:
Starbucks doesn't suck completely but Tim Horton's dark roast is almost as good and half the price.
I usually make my own anyway so fuck 'em both.
Of course caffeine is an addictive drug and of course some people act like junkies without it.
If you have no more than a couple of cups of coffee every four hours or so you can totally avoid the diuretic effect of caffeine.
Energy drinks are poison and children shouldn't be allowed to have them.
Finally, to paraphrase Judge Kavanaugh, "Yes, we drank coffee. My friends and I. Boys and girls. Yes, we drank coffee. I drank coffee. Still like coffee. We drank coffee."

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

@22k

Heading up to NYC next Saturday

Any restaurant recommendations that can handle a party of 8?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I'm bummed I missed out on the whole coffee discussion.
Just to get it off my chest:
Starbucks doesn't suck completely but Tim Horton's dark roast is almost as good and half the price.
I usually make my own anyway so fuck 'em both.
Of course caffeine is an addictive drug and of course some people act like junkies without it.
If you have no more than a couple of cups of coffee every four hours or so you can totally avoid the diuretic effect of caffeine.
Energy drinks are poison and children shouldn't be allowed to have them.
Finally, to paraphrase Judge Kavanaugh, "Yes, we drank coffee. My friends and I. Boys and girls. Yes, we drank coffee. I coffee. Still like coffee. We drank coffee."

I really don't like Starbucks at all. I'd rather have Dunkin Donuts

Have nay of you guys had La Colombe?

 

[Andy Capp]

I really don't like Starbucks at all. I'd rather have Dunkin Donuts

Have nay of you guys had La Colombe?

I mostly object to Starbucks for reasons that have nothing to do with how their coffee tastes anyway so I might just be more forgiving when it comes to quality/taste than you. I find it tolerable, but not preferable to Tim Horton's.
Never heard of La Colombe. American chain?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I mostly object to Starbucks for reasons that have nothing to do with how their coffee tastes anyway so I might just be more forgiving when it comes to quality/taste than you. I find it tolerable, but not preferable to Tim Horton's.
Never heard of La Colombe. American chain?

It's a Philly coffee company that's been growing pretty fast the past decade.

https://www.lacolombe.com/

 

[Islam Imamate]

Molyneux has always been terrible but he's kind of hit a new low with all this creepy posting about women becoming infertile. So far I know he's called out both Swift and Watson for being childless in about as creepy a manner as you could imagine.

Can't remember who I was discussing the movie with, other than @HereticBD, but I rewatched Joker. I've settled on a few things, most of all that it isn't a great movie but that it's a worthwhile addition to the Batman canon and to American film. In retrospect, as some conservatives like Heretic pointed out, the "incel" angle was really, really blown out of proportion. It's a story about the brutality of austerity on the most vulnerable in society, including the mentally ill and the truly explosive potential of class warfare. In effect, like the Nolan films, I think it fear mongers about left-wing politics more than it lionizes them, but it's not the job of films like that to make helpful political statements.

On the incel angle [spoilers follow], I actually think Phillips makes a statement, whether intentional or not, that really bites back against incel right-wing ideology of commodifying women. There is a longstanding cultural phenomenon that white men see more-attractive black women, particularly poor ones, as universally attainable for even the most unexceptional white men. That, even though the man knows he's less attractive than her, she is within reach, unlike a comparable beautiful white woman. It's pretty blatant racism, where a white man internalizes his whiteness as a positive value and the woman's blackness as a negative value. This was touched on briefly (and this is the only time I can remember it being depicted) by Louis C.K. in Louie when he stalks a black woman who cashed him out at the grocery store. For the first half of the film, with its inexplicably lop-sided love story, it was necessary that the much-more-beautiful young woman be poor and black since her being white (let alone rich and white) would have completely tipped the hand and set off suspicions in the viewer. So, whether Phillips meant to or not, he made a powerful commentary on that phenomenon.

Either way, I think the non-political conservative types were probably right to bitch about the media incel thing.

Overall,
Good:

Photography/cinematography
Homages to previous Batman films (really exceptional job done here)
Social commentary
Inventive new takes on characters and linking together important events​

Bad:

Lack of character development
Not enough internal plot logic
Several unrealistic plot points​

One thing that stood out to me, though, is that Phoenix's performance wasn't that remarkable to me. I think he's an incredible actor, but I didn't think his take was all that nuanced, moving, or captivating. Definitely nowhere close to Ledger's.

Hmm, interesting take as it pertains to the black woman.

I watched it months later and the political part of it that stood out to me that in hindsight I was surprised media didn't push on, as I didn't see the incel angle hardly at all, is that a mentally ill loser/loner/pathetic person finally felt power and that he had control of his life once he got a gun.

That's an interesting point, like you and Trots I didn't really see the incel angle much at all but now that you mention that point I guess its sort of there.

I really don't like Starbucks at all. I'd rather have Dunkin Donuts

Have nay of you guys had La Colombe?

Same here. I like Starbuck enough but like I said in the other thread I think its overpriced. DD has a much better quality to price ratio. Less variety but I don't really care much about that.

 

[HereticBD]

I watched it months later and the political part of it that stood out to me that in hindsight I was surprised media didn't push on, as I didn't see the incel angle hardly at all, is that a mentally ill loser/loner/pathetic person finally felt power and that he had control of his life once he got a gun.

I'd say it's got a lot more left wing politics infused into it, than anything. You got the rally against the 1%, the consequences of government cuts to health care, the gun thing...

Overall though, I think the character said it best to describe the film's political leanings:

"I'm not political."

Anyways, good movie. Found it flowed a lot better on the second viewing.

 

[JDragon]

I wish I knew shit posting could be a career when I was younger

Tbf the Wendy's Twitter account is the gold standard. I'd expect the responsible person rakes in the $$$$$

 

[Fawlty]

98% of the time, when somebody says: "The thing is..."

It's not the thing.