Volume and intensity workouts....

[DevilMMA]

Back in my bad old bodybuilding 6-12 rep days, I used to do a lot of pyramiding/HIT style training..... (spits on the floor).

Having totally changed things up, I know only consistent weight training (eg 5 x 5 x 100). I have also seen however on here mention of 'intensity' workouts (ie 50 x 5, 60 x 5, 70 x 5, 80 x 5) whereby presumably your early sets are way sub-maximal.

What is the rationale and/or pros and cons of the 2 styles???

 

[OJisinnocent]

P90x ftw

 

[Perfect Moo]

P90x ftw

Wrong thread.

I'm no expert, but I think the ramping sets allow you to gradually use heavier weight.

5 sets of 100 will leave you burnt out, like 5x70, 5x80, 5x90, 5x100, 5x110 will too, you just use heavier weight.

You can't use your 5rm for straight sets.

 

[Origins]

I think that 5x5 for straight sets (as in the same weight for all 5 sets) is just too much volume most of the time. I believe most 5x5 programs (e.g. Bill Starr, Madcow) have you ramp up to a top set.

 

[Tosa]

The reason for this is that there are benefits to both volume and intensity, but having both in the same workout doesn't usually work. It's beneficial to get in a good number of reps, and it's also good to go heavy, but one will limit the other. I.e. you can't work up to a 5rm, and do sets across with the same weight.

Also it can change what's most fatigued from a workout. A high intensity but lower volume workout will tax the CNS more than the muscles. And vice versa for a higher volume but lower intensity workout.

Eventually you may find that you tend to get more out of volume, or more out of intensity, and plan your workouts accordingly, like if you find you really benefit from volume, something like Sheiko could work well, or if you like intensity, maybe more ME work.

 

[Onericali]

Sub maximal sets are warmup sets.

If you do sub maximal sets after you have completed your work sets.

Then this can aid in some hypertrophy.

Pyramiding is good for beginners, because they can make gains in the metabolic, neural, and hypertrophy ranges all at the same time.

Eventually, you have to have maximal load at your maximal set/rep range in order to have a gain in one of these specific areas.

For example, for hypertrophy, beginners can do whatever, and as long as they eat, they will gain, after that, a person might require 3 sets of 6-12 (I'm using the range you used earlier) where as some people might need 5 sets. For this range, getting sore is the main indicator.

For neural gains, it will be lower reps, and 5X 5 could work, or 6X4, or 5X3, or 5/3/1, or 8X3. See where I'm headed? Depends on what your body needs.

So doing 2 sets in the metabolic range, assuming it is challenging, which means a lot more than 5 reps, followed by 2 sets hypertrophy range, and 2 sets low reps in neural range, might get minimal or no gains in all areas.

It is like sun tanning. You think if you do 20 minutes a day in the same amount of sun, you will keep getting darker?

No. Your body adapts to that 20 minutes. If you keep doing that 20 minutes, your body doesn't change at all. It has already adapted. You have to increase the intensity or duration etc..

 

[DevilMMA]

Hmmm..... Im confused

With me using an example, yesterday I did as part of my workout 5 x 3 x 300 (not including my warm up sets) on bench press. It was only the last set that really was challenging but it was do-able so next time I will attempt 5 x 3 x 305.

What is this approach useful for and what would an alternative be?

Im not using my 5RM across all the sets, Im using a weight that enables me to complete 5 sets of 5 reps at a given weight.... if you see what Im saying?

 

[DevilMMA]

So using yesterdays bench press as an example, should I be doing say...

200x5, 230x5, 260x5, 285x5, 300x5??.... And then upping to 305 when the last set is satisfactorily do-able?

Is there a standard % template for calculating the weights of each of your work sets? (eg 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, 100%)

 

[DrBdan]

In one of the 5x5 templates it explains that for ramping each set should be 15-20% less than the set after it. The wording is a little confusing but it's actually simple. Say your top set is going to be 350x5, 15% of 300 is 52. For ease of math we'll make it 50 lb and work backwards from 350 so 350, 300, 250, 200, 150. So your sets would go:

(warm-up)
150x5
200x5
250x5
300x5
350x5

There's an explanation of this online that I read recently but I can't remember where. I'll see if I can dig it up.