Volkanovski and Ortega would’ve beat prime Aldo

[BFoe]

Physically maybe. But that’s a flawed logic you have there. Fighters learn new skills and improve over time. Even Aldo. His pacing, feints, output, jabs and cardio looked better than ever against Munhoz. Maybe if he fought Conor like that, the result might’ve been different. But he didn’t as wasn’t as experienced and mature as he is now

Of course physically, as we’re taking about athletic prime after all. Just because Alistair Overeem (for example) makes some adjustments to his overall game as he gets older, that doesn’t suddenly make him prime Overeem. It makes him old Overeem who is trying to make adjustments to compensate for his decline.

With Aldo, it’s important to remember that he moved down weight classes to be able to still have success. (And not everyone can do that, so props to him). Aldo realized that he had declined to a point where he couldn’t beat top FWs, so he dropped to 135. He has not been improving over time. Improvement over time has a limit, a ceiling to it.
Out of curiosity, how are you determining that Aldo’s cardio never looked better than in the Munhoz fight? That was a 3 round fight, and I don’t recall Aldo ever having cardio issues in a 3 round fight. In fact, I don’t even recall it being an issue in 5 rounders aside from the Hominick fight, and I think Aldo fixed whatever that issue was long ago. He went 5 rounds with prime (or very close to prime) Frankie, Lamas, and Mendes without issue IIRC.

 

[drbolony]

This places' disrespect of Aldo is insane.

 

[HHJ]

Weird take from this fight.

 

[k1ngjester]

Ortega would have been eaten alive by prime Aldo. They couldn't have dragged him back to his stool. He would have been hobbled. If you think Volk's leg kicks were landing at will, what do you think Aldo would have done? He's got a better jab than Volk and he's faster.

Prime Aldo and Volk is a great fight. I think Aldo could out point him. Only issue would be cardio.

The way Aldo checks low kicks and returning his own kicks, Volkanovski would be hobbled pretty quick. I see Aldo taking round 4 off but winning at the end.

 

[GOATtalks]

Of course physically, as we’re taking about athletic prime after all. Just because Alistair Overeem (for example) makes some adjustments to his overall game as he gets older, that doesn’t suddenly make him prime Overeem. It makes him old Overeem who is trying to make adjustments to compensate for his decline.

With Aldo, it’s important to remember that he moved down weight classes to be able to still have success. (And not everyone can do that, so props to him). Aldo realized that he had declined to a point where he couldn’t beat top FWs, so he dropped to 135. He has not been improving over time. Improvement over time has a limit, a ceiling to it.
Out of curiosity, how are you determining that Aldo’s cardio never looked better than in the Munhoz fight? That was a 3 round fight, and I don’t recall Aldo ever having cardio issues in a 3 round fight. In fact, I don’t even recall it being an issue in 5 rounders aside from the Hominick fight, and I think Aldo fixed whatever that issue was long ago. He went 5 rounds with prime (or very close to prime) Frankie, Lamas, and Mendes without issue IIRC.

His output was much higher than usual. He broke his significant strike landed record and it was a 3 round fight, so he almost doubled the output. Max stopped him twice in the third round after Aldo started to fade in both fights. Cardio was definitely a issue in those fights, but he looked very greasy against Munhoz, even though he was throwing twice as many punches. Aldo changed his style a lot as well. Instead of waiting on his opponent and exploding in burst, he pressured forward with a jab and feints. That’s one the reasons his cardio improved.

And I like how you didn’t respond to my post where I gave 3 perfect examples how fighters get to their peak form even after their physical primes. Jan, Oliviera and Poirier should be completely washed by your logic, yet they are better than they ever were. It’s not all about speed and explosivity. Skills and experience are the deciding factor in who wins 9 out of 10 times.

 

[Chillez]

Nah prime Aldo beats both.

 

[BFoe]

His output was much higher than usual. He broke his significant strike landed record and it was a 3 round fight, so he almost doubled the output. Max stopped him twice in the third round after Aldo started to fade in both fights. Cardio was definitely a issue in those fights, but he looked very greasy against Munhoz, even though he was throwing twice as many punches. Aldo changed his style a lot as well. Instead of waiting on his opponent and exploding in burst, he pressured forward with a jab and feints. That’s one the reasons his cardio improved.

And I like how you didn’t respond to my post where I gave 3 perfect examples how fighters get to their peak form even after their physical primes. Jan, Oliviera and Poirier should be completely washed by your logic, yet they are better than they ever were. It’s not all about speed and explosivity. Skills and experience are the deciding factor in who wins 9 out of 10 times.

I remember that you wrote in a another thread, that you needed time to reply to this one. I’m still waiting, lol

Sorry about that, I totally forgot. How do you remember this shit lol?
And to be totally honest, I don’t totally recall what we were talking about. But generally I find that fighters begin leaving their prime around the 10-11 year mark of their careers, provided they are fairly active fighters. And I agree that all of these guys you mentioned are in a good place in their careers. Regarding their primes, I think they are mostly in a “wait and see” holding pattern.
-Poirier is around the 12 year mark, so not too far off. He spent the majority of 2021 fighting Conor twice, then the Oliveira fight. As Conor hasn’t looked so great in several years, we’ll have to see Poirier in another fight or two and get a sense of where he’s at. I don’t think he’s washed up though. Declining or leaving prime? Yeah, probably.
-I def don’t want to sound like I’m shitting on Oliveira, as he’s probably FOTY imo. Like Poirier, he was sort of a mixed bag at 145 who performs much better at 155. But he’s another “wait and see” case: his string of wins is just not aging well. Kevin Lee fought Oliveira as part of a 1-4 run, Ferguson as part of an 0-3 run, Chandler as part of a 1-2 run. So we’ll see over the next few fights: either he’ll start to build a solid, dominant title reign or he won’t. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if he loses the belt in the next 1-2 fights. But we’ll see.
-Jan is kind of the outlier here to me. He’s one that doesn’t seem to fit my general pattern, although he did just get dominated by a 90 year old man in Teixeira. But all in all I agree that he’s an example of someone fighting at a good level 13 years into his career.

 

[SKITZADACTYL]

volk yes, ortega no.

 

[GOATtalks]

Sorry about that, I totally forgot. How do you remember this shit lol?
And to be totally honest, I don’t totally recall what we were talking about. But generally I find that fighters begin leaving their prime around the 10-11 year mark of their careers, provided they are fairly active fighters. And I agree that all of these guys you mentioned are in a good place in their careers. Regarding their primes, I think they are mostly in a “wait and see” holding pattern.
-Poirier is around the 12 year mark, so not too far off. He spent the majority of 2021 fighting Conor twice, then the Oliveira fight. As Conor hasn’t looked so great in several years, we’ll have to see Poirier in another fight or two and get a sense of where he’s at. I don’t think he’s washed up though. Declining or leaving prime? Yeah, probably.
-I def don’t want to sound like I’m shitting on Oliveira, as he’s probably FOTY imo. Like Poirier, he was sort of a mixed bag at 145 who performs much better at 155. But he’s another “wait and see” case: his string of wins is just not aging well. Kevin Lee fought Oliveira as part of a 1-4 run, Ferguson as part of an 0-3 run, Chandler as part of a 1-2 run. So we’ll see over the next few fights: either he’ll start to build a solid, dominant title reign or he won’t. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised if he loses the belt in the next 1-2 fights. But we’ll see.
-Jan is kind of the outlier here to me. He’s one that doesn’t seem to fit my general pattern, although he did just get dominated by a 90 year old man in Teixeira. But all in all I agree that he’s an example of someone fighting at a good level 13 years into his career.

I would’ve forgotten it, but you mentioned it in another thread and after that every time I saw a post by you, I was reminded of it.

- you have already become more subtle on your approach to prime 9 year rule was floating a lot around here on Sherdog, but if you say that fighters start to exit prime after 10/11 years, it would mean that Fedor, CroCop and Nog all got beaten still in their primes.
- there are way to many outliers to your approach, meaning that it’s more likely false. Here are just some few more examples:

Holloway- 15 years in MMA, 13+ as a pro
Glover- 19 years as a pro
Whittaker- 13 years a pro
Chandler- 12+ years as a pro
Makhachev- almost 12 years
Lewis- 12 years
Volkov- 13 years
Smith- 14 years
Brunson- 12 years
Hermansson- 12 years
Hall- 16 years
Luque- almost 13 years
Pantoja- 14 years

The simplistic understanding of prime here on Sherdog has to change.

 

[SaigeVanZant]

Volk would've been a good one. You're fucking high with Ortega though.

 

[po_thead]

Aldo fucking wastes Ortega +1

 

[RichterSchild]

Lol TS, those fighters mentioned would be hobbled by PRIME Aldo leg kicks, they wouldn't be able to implement whatever strengths/game plans they have, they would be too damaged to outlast him, leaving Jose to coast through the championship rounds as we've all seen multiple times in his title defenses. The recency bias on here is unbelievable.

 

[daniel san]

Volk likely beats him but Ortega would lose or get dominated but land a lucky sub/KO. Aldo is for sure one of the best ever but he has has a couple of mediocre fights that he fought in the same way would easily lose to someone like Volk.

 

[rakeleaves]

Ortega would have been battered and bruised just like everytime he steps up for gold.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

Ortega, the man with absolutely no striking defense (cue gif of Max teaching him defense while whooping his ass) is going to beat one of the most explosive strikers of all time?

ok chief. if you say so.

 

[TPMR]

Volkanovski might be better than Aldo everywhere. His footwork, fight IQ and cardio would be no match for Aldo. Prime Aldo was quite static, didn’t use much feints and only exploded in blitzing combos and threw naked leg kicks. Volk would’ve danced circles around him and would’ve drowned Aldo in championship rounds with his crazy pace.

Ortega can’t be finished. Aldo would probably outstrike him for a round or 2, but Ortega would take the fight later on. And if it hits the ground at any moment, Ortega sleeps Aldo for sure. Only bald Volk can survive that.

Aldo’s cardio wouldn’t have allowed to compete with the 2 beasts.
Also Volk and Ortega beat Aldo’s best wins easily- Mendes, Frankie, KZ, Cub and also Volk beat Max twice, something Aldo couldn’t achieve and beat Aldo as well.

It’s time to put some respect on Volk’s name as the best FW of all time.

P.S. the best and the greatest isn’t the same thing. Aldo is still the FW GOAT for now

Ortega fucking sucks

 

[Chomsky Honk]

Blue cage Aldo wouldn’t even need his legkicks he could probably beat Ortega with a slick uppercut.

 

[StonedLemur]

Ortega would have been eaten alive by prime Aldo. They couldn't have dragged him back to his stool. He would have been hobbled. If you think Volk's leg kicks were landing at will, what do you think Aldo would have done? He's got a better jab than Volk and he's faster.

Prime Aldo and Volk is a great fight. I think Aldo could out point him. Only issue would be cardio.

OH YEAH?....well I say prime Hunt would knock them all out lol

 

[GOATtalks]

Ortega fucking sucks

If that’s true, it doesn’t say anything good about Aldo’s level of competition. Ortega dealt with Frankie, Cub and KZ with ease.

 

[Gamer007]

Ortega is so goddamn overrated, I get it he fought a past prime Frankie and zombie.

The UFC can hype him up all they want, but he’s not gonna last very long at the top, it’s a shame Zabit never got to run through some of these guys.

In no universe does Ortega beat Aldo, he gets his ass beat badly. His submission threat is real, but not enough against top of the food chain talent. He’s usually too battered by the time he finds his hail marry attempt because his striking is still needs loads of development.

Nothing against Ortega, he has improved his striking to a decent level, and you can’t knock his will and heart to stay in a fight. But he WILL NOT last long at his current ranking.