Vitamin-C Pre Workout?

[Gary Peters]

I know alot of people on here claim T-Nation has been going down hill while others praise their articles. I came across an old article and the author suggested 500mg Vitamin C three to four hours before a workout because it helps with recovery/doms. Does anyone use this method? Has anyone experimented? Any truth to it? Curious... thanks.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

T-Nation said that? Let me guess they started selling vitamin C now?

 

[MikeMartial]

I've flipped sides on this one over the years; in the past, I've been a huge proponent of supplementing antioxidants, but recently, I've cut them all out, except for whole food sources.

I don't know if you've read it, but I posted a thread here and in a thread you started, here. Some fine epic posting, if I do say so.

I'm currently reading David Barr's The Anabolic Index, and he mentions antioxidants, specifically the issue with using them preWO:

"Further, it should be noted that muscle contraction actually requires a little oxidation to function optimally. If we hinder this process too much, we may impair muscle strength."

And

"It is best to put time limits on supplementation such that workouts are not affected. Avoiding (antioxidant) supplementation for 4 hours prior to a workout is a decent start"

I've seen the t-nation article describing cortisol suppression through vitamin C, and not only do I think it's a load of shit, I'm not convinced suppressing cortisol through supplementation is a good idea, anyways. There's theoretical potential for compensatory elevation.

 

[MikeMartial]

For whatever reason, the forum isn't registering that I even posted #3. Odd.

 

[Monger]

I've seen the t-nation article describing cortisol suppression through vitamin C, and not only do I think it's a load of shit, I'm not convinced suppressing cortisol through supplementation is a good idea, anyways. There's theoretical potential for compensatory elevation.

I think there might be some truth to it suppressing cortisol but I don't know the significance... it may be on such a small scale that's pointless. But I thought I saw some studies at PubMed that did show it to be beneficial for that in some endurance sports.

I hope your last part isn't true or I may be fucked :icon_chee I'm still taking 1,050mg of PS a day and planned on continuing that until after July.

As for Vit C peri-WO, I wouldn't bother with it for all the reasons that Mike mentioned. In fact, if your fruit and veggie intake is decent, I wouldn't supplement with it at all.

 

[MikeMartial]

I hope your last part isn't true or I may be fucked :icon_chee I'm still taking 1,050mg of PS a day and planned on continuing that until after July.

Actually, Barr brings that up regarding PS supplementation. It's pure theory, but potential rebound cortisol production secondary to suppression does make sense. It'd be cool if he chimed in on this thread---I'm going to email it his way.

 

[Monger]

I'd love to hear Dave Barr's theory in more detail on that.

 

[David Barr]

Thanks for the heads up Mike!

I've flipped sides on this one over the years;

As have I. Antioxidant use and hormonal manipulation are tricky areas of applied theoretical science.

I'm not convinced suppressing cortisol through supplementation is a good idea, anyways. There's theoretical potential for compensatory elevation.

Compensatory elevation should be a consideration, at least on a theoretical level. This would apply more specifically to general frequent attempts at hormonal manipulation. Pick any trophic hormone (or it's downstream effectors) and this seems to be the case.

On the other hand, I don't think that blunting a transient superfluous increase in a hormone (eg cortisol around a workout) would necessarily result in a rebound. That said, the effect of such blunting, if it were indeed possible, would be negligible compared to something like pre-workout nutrition.

I feel like I'm just rambling here...

 

[Monger]

I feel like I'm just rambling here...

If that's rambling... some of the stuff I've posted is just pure incoherent garbage

Thanks for the input, Dave. Let me ask you this...

The last few weeks my workload (mostly conditioning) has increased dramatically due to fight preparation. I've started taking PS @ 550mg in the morning and 550mg PWO. My only reason for this is out of pure speculation of elevated cortisol levels due to daily training volume. I haven't seen any real scientific data to back up my reasons for doing this... I'm simply paranoid about recovery and trying to give it my all. Since it's only a couple of months of elevated training I figured, what the hell, it can't hurt to give PS a try rather it works or not. So, here's my question... if you were in my place would you say, screw it and drop PS or do you think that it's worth a shot since my training volume is temporary? How's that for rambling? :icon_chee

 

[Vedic]

Thanks for the heads up Mike!



As have I. Antioxidant use and hormonal manipulation are tricky areas of applied theoretical science.



Compensatory elevation should be a consideration, at least on a theoretical level. This would apply more specifically to general frequent attempts at hormonal manipulation. Pick any trophic hormone (or it's downstream effectors) and this seems to be the case.

On the other hand, I don't think that blunting a transient superfluous increase in a hormone (eg cortisol around a workout) would necessarily result in a rebound. That said, the effect of such blunting, if it were indeed possible, would be negligible compared to something like pre-workout nutrition.

I feel like I'm just rambling here...

Well I don't take any anti oxidants supplement wise other than resvertrol. I also take some aryuvedic herbs.

I don't buy the rebound effect of cortisol though. I will go more in depth later.

 

[Vedic]

If that's rambling... some of the stuff I've posted is just pure incoherent garbage

Thanks for the input, Dave. Let me ask you this...

The last few weeks my workload (mostly conditioning) has increased dramatically due to fight preparation. I've started taking PS @ 550mg in the morning and 550mg PWO. My only reason for this is out of pure speculation of elevated cortisol levels due to daily training volume. I haven't seen any real scientific data to back up my reasons for doing this... I'm simply paranoid about recovery and trying to give it my all. Since it's only a couple of months of elevated training I figured, what the hell, it can't hurt to give PS a try rather it works or not. So, here's my question... if you were in my place would you say, screw it and drop PS or do you think that it's worth a shot since my training volume is temporary? How's that for rambling? :icon_chee

Its worth a shot.:icon_chee

 

[Ian Coe]

If that's rambling... some of the stuff I've posted is just pure incoherent garbage

Thanks for the input, Dave. Let me ask you this...

The last few weeks my workload (mostly conditioning) has increased dramatically due to fight preparation. I've started taking PS @ 550mg in the morning and 550mg PWO. My only reason for this is out of pure speculation of elevated cortisol levels due to daily training volume. I haven't seen any real scientific data to back up my reasons for doing this... I'm simply paranoid about recovery and trying to give it my all. Since it's only a couple of months of elevated training I figured, what the hell, it can't hurt to give PS a try rather it works or not. So, here's my question... if you were in my place would you say, screw it and drop PS or do you think that it's worth a shot since my training volume is temporary? How's that for rambling? :icon_chee

I have placed a order for 120 550 mg tabs of pure PS from a site that was linked in the CNS thread.
I'll be taking 550 once a day to see if it helps with mental function, lack of sleep and keeping the mental fog away while also seeing if it helps with my increasing training load.


after P&P its $96, so...I hope it works

 

[XTrainer]

I feel behind the curve, what is PS?

 

[Monger]

I feel behind the curve, what is PS?

Phosphatidylserine

It was talked about in this thread http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/nutrition-cns-775154/

 

[Hbs6]

Actually, Barr brings that up regarding PS supplementation. It's pure theory, but potential rebound cortisol production secondary to suppression does make sense. It'd be cool if he chimed in on this thread---I'm going to email it his way.

This makes total sense...people that take cortisol suppressents I have ready over and over on the net that if they dont taper the dose, they tend to have a rebound in ab fat. Makes sense, mess with your endocrine system improperly and there is always a downside.

But if they taper (despite the manufacturers of the product who say you can take the shit indef) they usually dont have the big rebound. The body is always looking for homeostasis and if more people realized this they wouldnt screw themselves up.

 

[Ian Coe]

I feel behind the curve, what is PS?

Phosphatidylserine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Vedic]

This makes total sense...people that take cortisol suppressents I have ready over and over on the net that if they dont taper the dose, they tend to have a rebound in ab fat. Makes sense, mess with your endocrine system improperly and there is always a downside.

But if they taper (despite the manufacturers of the product who say you can take the shit indef) they usually dont have the big rebound. The body is always looking for homeostasis and if more people realized this they wouldnt screw themselves up.

Funny the University of Utah did a test on that this spring, and it showed no rebound effect. As for when that study will be available to view, cortisol is not a simple matter. Now I had seen quite a few clients have this problem it would be different. But i haven't seen it happen yet.

 

[Monger]

Funny the University of Utah did a test on that this spring, and it showed no rebound effect. As for when that study will be available to view, cortisol is not a simple matter. Now I had seen quite a few clients have this problem it would be different. But i haven't seen it happen yet.

It sounds like the study isn't published yet, but do you have anymore details? I'm thinking that maybe you have contacts there?

 

[Vedic]

I have contacts there. I am going to try and get the abstracts to it this week.

 

[Monger]

I have contacts there. I am going to try and get the abstracts to it this week.

Sweet.