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Virgil Van Dijk, Long lost brother of Germaine de Randmire?

Discussion in 'The Lightweights' started by Lord Ashley Barnes, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Hellowhosthat Red Belt

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    The best womens players in the world seem to make around $400,000 a year, which is hardly shit, but less than a lot of male players make in a week.
     
  2. WongzenYo Newbie

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    The first thing, its odd to compare, simply because the formats are so hugely different from one another. Second, each sport looks for specific attributes, what you define as athletic is strenght in NFL´s case, etc etc. Soccer is very skillbased, i never disagreed with you on that, i just think its strange to compare the average NBA player with the average soccer player(worldwide), and somehow expect their attributes to easily make a crossover to one other sport. If you compare the top soccer player with the top NBA/NFL player, you can argue for each case, in terms of making it in football? You get far with good skills, but the athletic attributes are being watched for, always. You do put a lot of emphasis on Strenght, because your sport such as NFL requires it a lot, and therefore use it as a way to define what it means to be athletic, while ignoring the fact that Messi has some of the best agility in the world, mixed with his skills, making him one of the best athletes. You dont find any NFL og NBA player who moves in such a small space as Messi, in the context of football, so if you wanna play with the crossover idea, its a 2-way thing. Basically, you controlling the premises, and defines what-not, when its widely open for debate of what it means to be athletic, and in which context.
     
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  3. No Skill Gap Purple Belt Platinum Member

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    Fair enough, I'm probably wrong on some things, you're probably wrong on some things. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

    I don't want to argue like a Ben Shapiro prick here and it gets exhausting. My stance is basically that the idea of conditioning and cardio basically, that a soccer player has being "superior athletically" is not something I agree with. I think NFL and NBA players easily could exhibit that level of cardio, it's not like soccer guys are going all out during games all the time, not even close.

    But at the same time clearly there are some top notch athletes that do play soccer, agreed. I don't agree with the Messi comment at all, because if you followed the NFL heavily you'd know that the 3-cone drill is something that tests for that and plenty of players have great short area speed/change of direction speed.

    Someone like Tyreek Hill for example, or pretty much any good CB or WR is going to have very good "small space" speed and agility.

    I think maybe Messi could run a decent to good 3-cone time, maybe a great one. That's not where he's limited. As an athlete that's where he excels. I'm saying take the skill out. Let's go purely on athleticism. That is my argument. So imo, Messi is limited by size/strength clearly, where as someone like Darren Sproles at the same height or shorter, is not. Then we can get into steroids and PEDs which tons of guys in every sport are on, but whatever.
     
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  4. Beherit Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    the fastest NFL player ever recorded is slower than the fastest ever recorded football player, it is true. FACTS. ( plus football player run at the same time they must control the ball, which is much harder than just running ). Football is insanely athletic, legit all the areas of athleticism is included in football, unlike NFL for example.
     
  5. pizzle Red Belt

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    Virgil Van Dijk Long I see what you did there, ts
     
  6. Beherit Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    where u at @No Skill Gap ? Come at me !
     
  7. Hellowhosthat Red Belt

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    Running while controlling the ball isn't really athleticism though, it takes a huge amount of skill to be able to execute it like Ronaldinho or Messi does, but not really what I'd consider athleticism.

    In terms of the top speed are we talking top speed in direct sprinting, or top speed during a game, because during a game an NFL player is sprinting with all the gear on.
     
  8. DS7 Bangkok Ready

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    bow before the N1 sport in the world you filthy american/canadian
     
  9. No Skill Gap Purple Belt Platinum Member

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    and btw I just watched Mason Greenwood score a goal 30 seconds ago for Man U.

    Let's say that someone I live with is a degenerate gambler and I've been watching EPL soccer for the past week straight. So yeah lmao.

    It was pretty athletic obviously, the footwork. The speed, the dribbling with it even though that's skill based. Even though I have shit on soccer "football" in this 'debate' it's not as if I believe it takes no athleticism. Obviously it does. I just think the NFL/NBA have vastly superior athletes and the sports themselves require more athleticism as a prerequisite.

    Just like there have been very athletic baseball players (Rickey Henderson, Willie Mays, Mike Trout, Barry Bonds, etc) despite the sport...even more so than soccer, not being based on athleticism as a prerequisite necessarily. It focuses more on skill and hand-eye than anything else.
     
  10. Sonny Qc 86,425 Likes

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    Never

    pusseh sports

    [​IMG]
     
  11. DS7 Bangkok Ready

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    I raise you a Josh Koscheck
     
  12. Beherit Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    during a game only, I dont care about the rest. And my argument about running about the ball, is that even though they are running with the ball ( which makes u slower ), they still have better speed than NFL players.

    I am sorry but a sport like NFL with pause every 30 seconds can not be compared to football with 45 minutes almost straight. NFL is just made for american to watch adds, if it was good, the world would have like it, basketball is good, the world likes it. NFL is a pure advertising sport, I am sure than if the NFL didn't exist, USA wouldn't have so many obese ...
     
  13. DS7 Bangkok Ready

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    GOATnaldo is the GOAT athlete

    bow before your king
     
  14. Hellowhosthat Red Belt

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    I don't think Mbappe was clocked running with the ball, it'll have been him clocked running onto a through ball. The average football player does not have better speed than the average NFL receiver or corner. Some players like Mbappe and Coman are obviously ridiculously fast, but someone like Aguero wouldn't look fast in the NFL.

    I'm not an NFL fan and have only watched it a handful of times and have watched soccer since I was 4 years old, for the record.
     
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  15. No Skill Gap Purple Belt Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]

    This guy? I'd guillotine him 10 times in 5 minutes.
     
  16. Beherit Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    mbappe ran with ball, and aguero has a great acceleration ( a la messi ), but is far from the fastest football player.
     
  17. Hellowhosthat Red Belt

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    These are the fastest soccer players (unless you count Bolt as technically a soccer player), but it doesn't say whether it was with or without the ball.

    1. Kylian Mbappe - 36km/h

    2. Inaki Williams - 35.7km/h

    3. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang - 35.5km/h

    4. Karim Bellarabi - 35.27km/h

    5. Kyle Walker - 35.21km/h

    6. Leroy Sane - 35.04km/h

    7. Mohamed Salah - 35km/h

    8. Kingsley Coman - 35km/h

    9. Alvaro Odriozola - 34.99km/h

    10. Nacho Fernandez - 34.62km/h


    According to this article the fastest NFL player would be third on the soccer list with the ball in his hands.
     
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  18. Beherit Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    mbappe ran controlling the ball, I remember perfectly. running controlling the ball with ur feet is much much tougher than running with the ball in ur hands.
     
  19. Beherit Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Y R U RUNNING ?
     
  20. No Skill Gap Purple Belt Platinum Member

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    Obviously he didn't have the ball, don't be ridiculous. I'm not running I don't want to be part of this debate because it will solve nothing. You are clearly biased an unwilling to objectively look at anything.

    Yeah Mbappe, who I don't even know for the record, is running faster than anyone in the NFL while dribbling the ball lmao. Okay. No fucking chance.

    And again when you go by those speeds, it's easier to reach max speed on the pitch with no resistance, a free release, and longer path. NFL players rarely every, pretty much never, are just running as fast as they can without resistance in a straight line for 40-50 yards in a row on the field. It never happens basically, or they never have reason to go maximum speed the entire time.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/football-s...lts-world-record-average-speed-080715019.html

    "Mbappe reached a top speed of 38km/h as he played a ball out wide and sprinted 50m to flick the ball home upon the return pass.

    His sprint speed smashed that of Germany and Manchester City forward Leroy Sane who had the best figures in the Premier League last season of 35.5km/h.

    Incredibly, it also topped Bolt's average speed when he registered 37.58km/h when the Jamaican broke the 100m World Record in the 2009 Berlin World Championships."


    And you've been proven wrong. He did not have the ball / was not dribbling the ball while this happened. Also this does not count acceleration at all. Otherwise why doesn't Mbappe go run in the olympics considering he beat Bolt right? Well because the start is irrelevant. This is simply maximal speed. Which is very impressive nonetheless, but again it's one myopic facet. (and again WIND is a huge factor here, he probably had the wind at his back to a significant degree, hence beating Bolt)
     

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