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Violent Felons and the Second Amendment

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Quipling, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Quipling classical conservative

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    I'm somewhere in the middle on gun rights/regulation. Frequently, I see the argument posted by some gun rights advocates that not to be infringed means that all gun regulations are facially invalid. (If this is not what is meant, please post such). I am aware that not all gun rights advocates take this position, but there are some who certainly appear to do so, and this is elaborated into an inalienable right to firearm possession under a wide variety of circumstances.

    So, for people who hold this position: Should violent felons be allowed to have firearms - even after being released from prison and serving out their parole?

     
  2. Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    It's been discussed, debated, and explained for hundreds of years.

    You can't play grammar police on this one, chap.
     
  3. Cubo de Sangre President of the War Room

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    It would simplify matters to follow the letter of the law by not separating felons from their rights. To offset this I'd suggest longer sentences for first-time violent offenders and then really throwing the book at them on a second violent-crime conviction.
     
  4. thewhole9yards Purple Belt

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    M1 Abrams all the way....:icon_chee
     
  5. ripskater Guest

    They should have the right to bear arms. If they are that violent, they should still be in prison.
     
  6. UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    Yes one can play grammar police, the fact that the phrasing has been debated for hundreds of years--debate which continues--demonstrates that to be the case. Moreover, read the posts you're responding to.
     
  7. lfd0311 Pink Belt

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    No. Just No.
     
  8. JDragon Lawn and Order!

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    I thought about this sone more. I still think even if bearing arms is a right in the USA, this should only be true for unconditional release from jail. I personally would favor something like 'Serve time x, be on parole for time y'. And not being allowed to bear guns should absolutely be part of probation terms for violent felons. Especially if they used one in the crime.
     
  9. bjjHERRERA Silver Belt

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    exactly. TWO strikes only on v.o's. - fuck a third chance.
     
  10. UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    Probation is a conditional release. While under probation you're still actually under punishment and monitoring. I was not, and I'd assume the same for pan, arguing that someone on probation should be able to legally own guns.

    If such restrictions extend for the lifetime of an individual you're effectively levying a life sentence. Sex offender lists etc. are life sentences. Maybe you're fine with that but to me it begs the question of if you're still a pronounced danger, why were you released.
     
  11. ripskater Guest

    It doesn't really matter, they can go to walmart or gander mountain and buy a machete and get the job done too. If they really want to take a life.
     
  12. ripskater Guest

    To me, it's either a right or it's not.
     
  13. TSO Pink Belt

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    Agree, sort of. If someone is too violent to trust out in public, kill them. Don't make a show of it, don't torture them, just end them and move on.
     
  14. JDragon Lawn and Order!

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    Oh, I agree. While I personally think it's a big, big mistake that owning guns is a right in the US, I also agree that there always needs to be a way to rehabilitation. But e.g. someone with several armed robberies on his record should not necessarily get a life sentence (depending on the circumstances). But that person should absolutely have to serve a certain probationary period once out of jail.

    So I should re-word my opinion: I do not believe violent felons should get out of jail without a subsequent probationary period EVER. Especially if you have abused your right to bear arms.
     
  15. JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark Platinum Member

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    So you love Jesus and Guns....
     
  16. Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    Right, just like the people who believe the earth is flat.

    I guess you can keep debating, and losing, my apologies.
     
  17. ripskater Guest

    Yeah they're cool to shoot. I also like to do a little archery. My 2nd grader likes to shoot (archery) with me.
     
  18. UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    You clearly don't have any clue what my position on this issue is. I guess you can keep assuming, and being wrong, my apologies.
     
  19. JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark Platinum Member

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    What do you think Jesus would of thought about guns?


    Archery is fun, I agree.
     
  20. Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    You think the wording of the 2nd Amendment can be interpreted differently than it has been since it was written.

    You're wrong. You're a traitor and a communist.
     
  21. ripskater Guest

    I think Jesus wants me to be ready to protect my family.

    1 Timothy 5

    8But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
     
  22. UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    You're pretending there has been a single monolithic interpretation. That's clearly not the case. Hell, it has only been incorporated for about a decade.
    Uhm... no, but whatever.
     
  23. JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark Platinum Member

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    LOL - always good for a chuckle, thanks rip.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    Much like someone who thinks the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, evolution is a lie, or vaccines don't work --- I really can't argue with you.

    Your mind isn't based in reality.

    You want to take guns away from people, and you will go to any lengths to do it. Keep desperately reaching and picking at the grammar of the 2A. You know damned well you won't be the one going door-to-door to disarm the people, coward.
     
  25. ripskater Guest

    Wait til we see Jesus come back. Next time it will be to battle.
     
  26. JDragon Lawn and Order!

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    lulz

     
  27. TSO Pink Belt

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    Now we just need Jesus on a dinosaur with an m-16.
     
  28. WorldofWarcraft Holy Paladin Banned

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    Serve your time, get your rights back. If you are deemed to be a danger to the public, you shouldn't be outside of prison.
     
  29. Byron Carter Purveyor of Wisdom Banned

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    I don't like the current system of releasing violent/at-risk people, and then attempting to place restrictions on them.

    Either keep them behind bars, or give them freedom. In most cases, keep them behind bars.

    But if someone is free to go out on the street, they should be free to have their 2nd Amendment Rights.
     
  30. Farmer Br0wn Farmer Br0wn belt

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    Agreed. This whole notion of "any felony (violent or not) disqualifies your natural rights, oh and by the way, we're making just about everything a felony" is nothing more than disarmament one citizen at a time.
     
  31. JudoThrowFiasco Charming Quark Platinum Member

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    That is an odd fantasy, Rip.

    But then again, I have a daydream in which I have the powers of Dr Manhattan from Watchmen - so, to each their own.
     
  32. Farmer Br0wn Farmer Br0wn belt

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    The only people who ever seem to "debate" or "have a hard time understanding" the meaning and grammar of the 2nd Amendment are the same people who always want less guns in civilian hands................

    Isn't it funny how that work.......
     
  33. TSO Pink Belt

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    I just want a glowing Weiner. Is that too much to ask?
     
  34. UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    Like I said, you've no idea what my position is. I don't support additional gun control. I don't support banning guns for cosmetic reasons. I don't support magazine restrictions, etc. I've actually been fairly consistent on this issue for the last 5+ years. Even the post to which you were responding was simply me appreciating a slightly more nuanced argument than I'd come across previously. You can also see that in this very thread I'm advocating protecting the second amendment rights of felons.

    I have, at times, criticized gun lobbies and people on the pro-gun side of discussions for dishonesty and paranoia but I've also criticized people on the gun control side for the same.

    Tell me again how I'm the one not rooted in reality.
     
  35. Shokushu Goukan Banned Banned

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    This is america right? I thought this was america.
     
  36. UpaLoompa Grand Quasiprophet of the Sakaran Apocolyps

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    Well given that I don't think we should restrict ownership that is indeed funny.
     
  37. smithwick Purple Belt

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    Guns + Jesus is the worst version of America that exists.
     
  38. Greoric Banned Banned

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    Then you think citizen on citizen homicide with firearms is of greater consequence than democide?
     
  39. Scrody Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    If they do their time, I don't think they should have restrictions on their rights afterwards. If they do something stupid after they're released, then lock em up for good.
     
  40. Greoric Banned Banned

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    If you're not in favor of restricting ownership, then why the try-hard attempt at nitpicking holes in the spirit or wording of the 2A?
     

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