Crime Violence, Race, Criminal Justice

[kingstu]

Gotta replace that income somewhere else.

I didn’t even consider the loss of revenue from reducing traffic stops but I’m sure that would be a factor.

If there are any police officers in this thread maybe they have some thoughts about getting out of the business of traffic stops altogether.

Opinion: Get Police Out Of Traffic Stops

Not only has the Supreme Court allowed police to use traffic violations as pretext for criminal law enforcement, but also it has said police have “unquestioned command of the situation” during a traffic stop, ratifying the aggression displayed by too many officers during stops.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/16/remove-police-traffic-stops/

 

[ElKarlo]

Strong family structure?

This

how did the Koreans who were brutally colonized and were a decade away from losing their own language destroyed, come to the USA, learn English and broadly succeed? Shouldn’t they be screaming about colonialism and oppression and be demanding money?

 

[kingstu]

how did the Koreans who were brutally colonized and were a decade away from back their own language destroyed, come to the USA, learn English and broadly succeed? Shouldn’t they be screaming about colonialism and oppression and be demanding money?

I really hate to agree with you here but I’ve made this argument many times by comparing Hebrew people with Black people.

Both groups experienced centuries of oppression … one group took the “education and career” road while the other group took the “increase political power” road.

Black people have continued to increase their political power but have almost nothing to show for it in terms of closing the gap in wealth and income while Jews have more wealth and income than average non-Jews.

 

[ElKarlo]

I really hate to agree with you here but I’ve made this argument many times by comparing Hebrew people with Black people.

Both groups experienced centuries of oppression … one group took the “education and career” road while the other group took the “increase political power” road.

Black people have continued to increase their political power but have almost nothing to show for it in terms of closing the gap in wealth and income while Jews have more wealth and income than average non-Jews.

Agreed. For blacks I think it was a good system for a while. They also if I may add to it, policed themselves and made sure all in the community towed the line. No one went out of step. Which was a virtue. But now that stick togetherness is a burden and as Charles Barkley has said, it sets up a system where blacks pull each other down. Which is why even Africans can come to the USA and do well. It’s not racism, it’s the black community doing it to themselves. The lack of self awareness seems to be something the left emits

 

[ElKarlo]

I didn’t even consider the loss of revenue from reducing traffic stops but I’m sure that would be a factor.

If there are any police officers in this thread maybe they have some thoughts about getting out of the business of traffic stops altogether.

Opinion: Get Police Out Of Traffic Stops

Not only has the Supreme Court allowed police to use traffic violations as pretext for criminal law enforcement, but also it has said police have “unquestioned command of the situation” during a traffic stop, ratifying the aggression displayed by too many officers during stops.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/16/remove-police-traffic-stops/

Yeah revenue aside. It looks good for reports and stats. But as you said it leads to dangerous encounters. I’d be ok with doing only enough to ensure that traffic laws are obeyed

 

[Tairy Hesticles]

I really hate to agree with you here but I’ve made this argument many times by comparing Hebrew people with Black people.

Both groups experienced centuries of oppression … one group took the “education and career” road while the other group took the “increase political power” road.

Black people have continued to increase their political power but have almost nothing to show for it in terms of closing the gap in wealth and income while Jews have more wealth and income than average non-Jews.

I don't think it's a 1:1 comparison, though. In the context of the US, Jews weren't banned from participating in modern society like black people were. I don't think black people really had a chance to choose the "education and career" path until fairly recently.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Agreed. For blacks I think it was a good system for a while. They also if I may add to it, policed themselves and made sure all in the community towed the line. No one went out of step. Which was a virtue. But now that stick togetherness is a burden and as Charles Barkley has said, it sets up a system where blacks pull each other down. Which is why even Africans can come to the USA and do well. It’s not racism, it’s the black community doing it to themselves. The lack of self awareness seems to be something the left emits

This is only anecdotal here, but here goes.

Quite a few of my mates are teachers, and most of them (who teach in major English cities - not the ones in Wales who mainly have 99% white Welsh kids in their classes).......say that African kids are doing far, far better in school than British-born black kids. Now, if the UK was inherently racist, they'd be doing even worse because British-born black kids at least have the 'positive tick' of having English sounding names and English accents.

My mates reckon it's simply because the African kids have a far stronger family dynamic, which stands firmly by a strong family unit, hard work and education and quite often, religion (I'm not religious, so I'm advocating religion). Whereas the British born black kids often come from fractured family units, have grown up with gang culture and the glamourisation of criminal behaviour. They simply don't seem to want to work hard, because they believe they can get rich without education and good behaviour (whether that's through crime or through the music industry, for example).

 

[nhbbear]

I didn’t even consider the loss of revenue from reducing traffic stops but I’m sure that would be a factor.

If there are any police officers in this thread maybe they have some thoughts about getting out of the business of traffic stops altogether.

Opinion: Get Police Out Of Traffic Stops

Not only has the Supreme Court allowed police to use traffic violations as pretext for criminal law enforcement, but also it has said police have “unquestioned command of the situation” during a traffic stop, ratifying the aggression displayed by too many officers during stops.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/16/remove-police-traffic-stops/

My favorite line from this article ;”Although we must remain vigilant to ensure that these machines aren’t disproportionately placed in Black neighborhoods, at least we know cameras don’t demean, pepper spray, or kill”.

I have had this discussion with other posters on disarming the police. What they can’t account for numbers wise, is how many armed subjects did not attack because police are armed? Traffic enforcement is dangerous. Plenty of armed felons are caught everyday because of traffic stops. If they know the person pulling them over is unarmed, maybe they get aggressive.

In my opinion, this is another step to getting to abolishment if police. If you remove mental health calls, homelessness and drug calls, decriminalize public intoxication and drug crimes, send unarmed civilian reporters to crash scenes and to take vandalism reports, and now take traffic enforcement from police-you will need less police. Bottom line. And that is what these people want. The argument is that “now police Can focus on violent crimes” but I am telling you that is always the priority and no violent crime goes uninvestigated because the cop is too busy pulling traffic stops. It’s often how warrants are served for violent crimes. Let the unarmed civilians deal with that-should go real well.

 

[Ayin]

The sentencing should be around the same for both individuals.

If your position is one of mainstream racial justice, this is in fact not the case. Sentencing needs to take into account the Systemic Racism experienced by the Chosen visible minority and consider that a mitigating factor in sentencing.

We (Canada) already have that in explicit language here, though currently the only Chosen minority group is those of pre-European American decent through Gladue reports and other similar measures.

The purpose of that being, even if all people are given the same sentances for the Salem crime, if any specifically identifiable group commits more crime, they will be over represented in the justice system (and specifically prison) compared to their percentage of the population. If that group is one we care about identifying for ideological reasons, we then decide we need to cause their representation to be equal, which requires modification of the end-step of the system, as the system itself has no ability to modify first-step.

ie, if people of claimed and recognized Aboriginal/First Nations lineage make up 13% of the population, but commit a significantly greater number of crimes, they will have more interaction with police and courts, and end up “over represented” in prison. Since the ability to lower their commission of crimes is outside the abilities of the jusitice system, they need to be given sentencing that will balance the scale when someone runs the “how many of X compared to Y are in prison compared to the country at large?” That balance can come from lesser sentences for the commission of the same crime, or “alternative” sentencing whereby te convicted person avoids prison and Ian put into a special stream.

This of course only matters in some instances. No one is attempting to lessen the sentences of say “Males” because of their absolutely staggering over representation in prisons (especially for violent offences). Our Federal government is also working on new measures including providing more legal aid to over represented groups, and attempts at systematizing sentence lessening are continuing as well.

 

[ElKarlo]

This is only anecdotal here, but here goes.

Quite a few of my mates are teachers, and most of them (who teach in major English cities - not the ones in Wales who mainly have 99% white Welsh kids in their classes).......say that African kids are doing far, far better in school than British-born black kids. Now, if the UK was inherently racist, they'd be doing even worse because British-born black kids at least have the 'positive tick' of having English sounding names and English accents.

My mates reckon it's simply because the African kids have a far stronger family dynamic, which stands firmly by a strong family unit, hard work and education and quite often, religion (I'm not religious, so I'm advocating religion). Whereas the British born black kids often come from fractured family units, have grown up with gang culture and the glamourisation of criminal behaviour. They simply don't seem to want to work hard, because they believe they can get rich without education and good behaviour (whether that's through crime or through the music industry, for example).

There’s probably a lot to that. Without a good family basis and without the stupid gang glorification African kids have more chances
Religion or religious schools can be beneficial due to structure. Hispanic kids do better in catholic school than in public school. Even without the religious aspects the discipline and structure are good for the kids.

 

[The_Renaissance]

There’s probably a lot to that. Without a good family basis and without the stupid gang glorification African kids have more chances
Religion or religious schools can be beneficial due to structure. Hispanic kids do better in catholic school than in public school. Even without the religious aspects the discipline and structure are good for the kids.

Yeah I'm no advocate for religion but all kids need structure and discipline and that seems to be more or less absent from the upbringing of black British-born kids, for the most part. If the system were racist, the African kids would be doing even worse in school than their British counterparts, but that's the complete opposite of what's happening.

But then, to publicise that puts the onus on the British black community to raise its kids better, right? And we can't be having people face responsibilities for their own actions, that's just racist.

 

[HomeCheese]

what happens next when the tax base evaporates. All the taxpayers leave, leaving just people who don’t pay any tax and live off of local, state and federal assistance.

their water bills and stuff like that skyrocket.

if you have 50,000 people paying the bill for the cities water infrastructure, what happens when only 5,000 are left and they have to cover the same costs of the infrastructure. Look at flint and Detroit.

democrats only know how to find something good and ruin it.

WTF??? You working on your dystopian fan fiction? Who's ass do you pull the shit out of?

 

[Proud American]

WTF??? You working on your dystopian fan fiction? Who's ass do you pull the shit out of?

It’s what actually happened to the people of flint Michigan. When more people leave, the water utility still has the same upgrade costs, which are factored into the water bill.

when people left that shithole, the people that stayed behind were hit with a much larger monthly bill. It’s economics.

 

[HomeCheese]

It’s what actually happened to the people of flint Michigan. When more people leave, the water utility still has the same upgrade costs, which are factored into the water bill.

when people left that shithole, the people that stayed behind were hit with a much larger monthly bill. It’s economics.

And you expect this to happen across the country? Without debating the numbers you suggested, why would a resident pay their bill when the water was poison? I thought the Flint residence actually were due $600 from the government as compensation for trying to kill them all.

 

[koquerelle]

I didn’t even consider the loss of revenue from reducing traffic stops but I’m sure that would be a factor.

If there are any police officers in this thread maybe they have some thoughts about getting out of the business of traffic stops altogether.

Opinion: Get Police Out Of Traffic Stops

Not only has the Supreme Court allowed police to use traffic violations as pretext for criminal law enforcement, but also it has said police have “unquestioned command of the situation” during a traffic stop, ratifying the aggression displayed by too many officers during stops.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/04/16/remove-police-traffic-stops/

Alfred av is accurate. JC. Stop posting.

 

[Proud American]

And you expect this to happen across the country? Without debating the numbers you suggested, why would a resident pay their bill when the water was poison? I thought the Flint residence actually were due $600 from the government as compensation for trying to kill them all.

it happened in Detroit. It will happen all over when Americans flee Democratic run cesspools of filth and crime. The utility costs will go up. Power lines still need the same maintenance etc etc. doesn’t matter if half a cities population left.

flints water problems was due to local government corruption. They never used money to fix the problem, they found ways to pocket it. But the most important thing to urban Americans is to keep voting for the D on a piece of paper, so this will just keep happening.

 

[HomeCheese]

it happened in Detroit. It will happen all over when Americans flee Democratic run cesspools of filth and crime. The utility costs will go up. Power lines still need the same maintenance etc etc. doesn’t matter if half a cities population left.

flints water problems was due to local government corruption. They never used money to fix the problem, they found ways to pocket it. But the most important thing to urban Americans is to keep voting for the D on a piece of paper, so this will just keep happening.

You could characterize Texas' utility issues in exactly the same way but the corruption was on the state level and primarily Republican. They did indeed get the astronomical power bills to the customers.

I'd like to see a source for this otherwise you are just making stuff up to try to look cool: "They never used money to fix the problem, found ways to pocket it"

 

[Proud American]

You could characterize Texas' utility issues in exactly the same way but the corruption was on the state level and primarily Republican. They did indeed get the astronomical power bills to the customers.

I'd like to see a source for this otherwise you are just making stuff up to try to look cool: "They never used money to fix the problem, found ways to pocket it"

Instead of corruption, I’d put Texas’ problem on negligence. They just assumed bird never freeze like that for so long in Texas

for Flint....

Flint investigator says greed and fraud led to drinking water crisis

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...nt-investigator-fraud-water-crisis/454066002/

 

[HomeCheese]

Instead of corruption, I’d put Texas’ problem on negligence. They just assumed bird never freeze like that for so long in Texas

/

Same thing happened in Texas ten years ago only. It was expected.

 

[ElKarlo]

Yeah I'm no advocate for religion but all kids need structure and discipline and that seems to be more or less absent from the upbringing of black British-born kids, for the most part. If the system were racist, the African kids would be doing even worse in school than their British counterparts, but that's the complete opposite of what's happening.

But then, to publicise that puts the onus on the British black community to raise its kids better, right? And we can't be having people face responsibilities for their own actions, that's just racist.

I feel like there has been a lot of babies thrown out with the bath water. Yes there are aspects of what we got rid of that were burdensome to society but many positives were thrown out as well
That said, yes this CRT nonsense basically allows blacks to not be introspective and not learn about what they are doing. It’s very clear that sticking together and expecting all members to “act black” is damaging. But instead we get oh racism is why and the echos of racism. It’s dishonest and it helps exactly no one that isn’t a grifter