Vietnam is sentencing corrupt bankers to death, by firing squad

[__Big_D__]

How many profit centers do you think an investment bank has? What % of those were trading MBS's at the time? This has a much bigger bearing on your point than you might think.

Enough to cause a collapse in the housing market and thus the financial world.

Of course the difference being homeowners had their homes foreclosed and banks got bailed out..

Also, have you ever heard of the phrase caveat emptor? Was there somebody forcing people to take huge unsecured loans?

notthisshitagain.jpg

Have you ever heard of predatory mortgage services?

 

[SammyPops]

*slow clap*

 

[MPS1997]

Americans should follow suit.

There would be no one left lol

 

[Happy Boy]

The FCIC used the word "fraud' or a synonym of fraud over a hundred times in its final report. It said breaches of ethics went straight to the top. It straight up said:

Now, whether or not this is actually criminal fraud, and who deserves to be prosecuted, I don't know--- but given how investigation has continued on even today and fines continued to be handed out even today, I am in complete disbelief that there is no criminal fraud that warrants jail time for any mid-to-high level executive that was green lighting these practices.

What is your position on this exactly, that no fraud was committed? Or that it was done in so many fragmented parts that there was no one part of the system that did enough to warrant being targeted?



Cut the buzzwords out of your arguments. Public outcry and scapegoating? JP Morgan is cashing out 13 BILLION for their abuses. This was after years of investigation. Did you not know about this?
Unless the top-level executives of these banks knew absolutely NOTHING about the bubble that was being created by these horrible repackaged mortgages, then they should be punished for the sins of the companies that THEY own and run.

My position on it is that no fraud was committed, at least not by your average ranking executive who was following what the industry was doing. Securitised or fixed income traders mosly don't earn a salary from what I know, they are 100% commission, so if they don't sell they don't eat. If they decided they weren't going to follow the way the industry went, they would need to quit on the spot as someone else would have sold them. Tremendous pressure, and their visibility was not outside of that world, all they did was tactical selling and its meaured week to week, so they didn't have the strategic input as to what was going on with these securities and how they were being packaged.

Now, way up the food chain we know there were people who knew (and had been warned) of potential ramifications of such products and how they were being sold, but I would put the total number of these people at less than 20 (i.e. heads of investment banks and rating agencies, well connected hedge fund managers) who have something to answer for, but who has taken it in the shorts? Not the top guys, the backlash has been against the ranks who have seen tremendous downward pressure on them since then, and they aren't deserving of it. I genuinely don't think they knew any better, and the ones who did were in no way in a position to do anything about it.

So that is what I think. Even among the top guys, it was underhanded and self-serving, but illegal? I just don't see it, it was an underregulated industry that blew up, I just see greedy people getting burned, but I don't see much illegality.

 

[Happy Boy]

Nobody was lied to?

Get out of here with your bullshit.

The entire housing bubble was created by credit rating agencies lying to investors.

Also nice job scapegoating some people who took out 100k loans as the cause of the GFC.

Another strawman. You are very difficult to discuss anything with, you can't seem to address the actual posts someone writes and go off on tangents.

I said nobody who was signing a mortgage was lied to, and that financial advice was purely that, advice. If you sign a mortgage without understanding it, shame on you. Would you prefer people be treated like children and be told they are too ignorant of basic finance?

People took out much bigger loans than $100k? That is a poor hyperboly. $100k is what house values plummeted to , but people were taking out loans for 9-10 times their annual salary and adding in 10% for decor, and putting nothing down against it. They are in no way blameless, and you trying to minimise their role in the crash is weak.

 

[Happy Boy]

Enough to cause a collapse in the housing market and thus the financial world.

Of course the difference being homeowners had their homes foreclosed and banks got bailed out..



notthisshitagain.jpg

Have you ever heard of predatory mortgage services?

So you don't know, is what you are basically saying?

It never ceases to amaze me how people who seem completely in the dark about how investment banks work are so convinced they are solely to blame.

 

[fdswer]

Close to 6 figures without the bonus but I didnt move out because the rent is high here.
http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f48/rent-here-ridiculous-2686029/


I live at home because I am investing into the future, which is a common trait for most of the successful people in this world

 

[ABACA]

Another strawman. You are very difficult to discuss anything with, you can't seem to address the actual posts someone writes and go off on tangents.

I said nobody who was signing a mortgage was lied to, and that financial advice was purely that, advice. If you sign a mortgage without understanding it, shame on you. Would you prefer people be treated like children and be told they are too ignorant of basic finance?

People took out much bigger loans than $100k? That is a poor hyperboly. $100k is what house values plummeted to , but people were taking out loans for 9-10 times their annual salary and adding in 10% for decor, and putting nothing down against it. They are in no way blameless, and you trying to minimise their role in the crash is weak.

Yeah, buddy. Cause the mortgage lenders would've kept making those loans if they were given the shit rating they deserved. Not a straw man argument, you're just an idiot shill.

 

[kuromusha]

Just because my parents paid for my housing, tuition and allowance doesnt they gave me my job and success. Like I've said, I couldve taken the easy way out and bag groceries for a living.
A lot of successful bankers are the same

You're speaking like bankers are revered in today's society.

 

[Bay Area]

You're speaking like bankers are revered in today's society.

Queen B (assuming she isn't a troll) is out of touch with reality. Mommy and Daddy paid for her college tuition, room board and spending money, and she holds herself up as a model hard worker for poor people. Oh and she gets to stay with mommy and daddy rent free in order to save up. Now why can't the poor follow her lead?

 

[IDL]

It's not lower case bankers that are a problem. It's the upper case Bankers

 

[Queen B]

Queen B (assuming she isn't a troll) is out of touch with reality. Mommy and Daddy paid for her college tuition, room board and spending money, and she holds herself up as a model hard worker for poor people. Oh and she gets to stay with mommy and daddy rent free in order to save up. Now why can't the poor follow her lead?

I am a dude, and guess what?

I didnt drop out of college, bag groceries for a living, and complain about how bankers have ruined my life

 

[DICK_DA_BRUISER]

But bankers want to make something of themselves. Soldiers just want to take the easy way out. Pushing the button on a buy order with tens of thousands of dollars at stake is a lot more stressful than some gunfight in an Iraqi apartment complex.

^^^^ you must be a special kind of stupid

 

[Bay Area]

^^^^ you must be a special kind of stupid

He is being facetious

 

[Happy Boy]

Yeah, buddy. Cause the mortgage lenders would've kept making those loans if they were given the shit rating they deserved. Not a straw man argument, you're just an idiot shill.

Yes, they probably would have, just charged higher interest on them! Again, I don't see what your point is, and how it relates to what I said.

But hey, ask a few more irrelevant rhetorical questions, and call names etc. Go for it!

 

[__Big_D__]

So you don't know, is what you are basically saying?

It never ceases to amaze me how people who seem completely in the dark about how investment banks work are so convinced they are solely to blame.

Lol. Wtf..

So you aren't looking for a conversation, is what you are basically saying? Just looking to pat yourself on the back?

 

[Happy Boy]

Lol. Wtf..

So you aren't looking for a conversation, is what you are basically saying? Just looking to pat yourself on the back?

I am looking for a conversation and have some going on in this thread, I just expect people to know what they are talking about if they are going to throw around accusations.

 

[ABACA]

Yes, they probably would have, just charged higher interest on them! Again, I don't see what your point is, and how it relates to what I said.

But hey, ask a few more irrelevant rhetorical questions, and call names etc. Go for it!

And if they charged higher rates, then would more, fewer, or the same number of mortgages have been taken?

Maybe if we take this one step at a time you'll be forced to stop pretending you don't understand.

 

[__Big_D__]

I am looking for a conversation and have some going on in this thread, I just expect people to know what they are talking about if they are going to throw around accusations.

 

[Plissken]

Matt_Serra.jpg

A lot of these banker actions seem to be worthy of capital punishment even though I don't necessarily want anyone dead.