Video Braziian Jiu-Jitsu Sport vs. Self Defense debate - BJJ Weekly Throwdown

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by djbrujoh, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. djbrujoh

    djbrujoh Yellow Belt

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    Nice discussion








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  2. Joose

    Joose Purple Belt

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    Where does this evidence that 95% of fights go to the ground come from?

    You should train grappling because you like doing it, not for self defense. I have never seen a one on one fight last more than 10 secs. It's usually broken up by then.
     
  3. Lookyoung

    Lookyoung Blue Belt

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    From my real life experiences most fights hit the floor! And FYI I have seen plenty of fights go past 10 seconds on the street. Our society has been castrated most men are not willing to break up anything. Even if a girl is getting beat up. Sad but true.
     
  4. Lookyoung

    Lookyoung Blue Belt

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    IMHO.

    1. Most fights end up on the ground!

    2. Bjj is a great Martial art for self defense.

    3. With multiple opponents your best bet is to run!

    4. Sport bjj competitors will be able to defend themselves on the street even with no self defense training.

    5. I believe self defense bjj is easier to grasp than sport bjj.I have done both and I think Self defense bjj is less complicated and caters to the nonathlete. Not everyone can be a great bjj competitor but I think everyone can defend themselves on the street with bjj!

    6. bjj is the best martial art for a one on one street fight.

    7. People who stick bjj for at least 6 month tend to be more humble and avoid confrontations. Before starting bjj I thought I was the toughest guy in the world and would fight anyone! Now I know the truth.
     
  5. DeadAim713

    DeadAim713 Blue Belt

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    Roger Huerta might disagree.
     
  6. MisterRay

    MisterRay Orange Belt

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    IMO the only difference between sport and self defense on the "streets" is the confidence level. If you do self defense, your confidence when someone is throwing punches might be a bit higher. If you do mostly "sport" you might not have that much experience with punches. That said, someone who strictly does sport jiu jitsu will know better than to jump to an inverted or x guard, they'd probably just close guard to hip bump. From being on top, street jiu jitsu or self defense is all the same.
     
  7. POPPA ROTZEE

    POPPA ROTZEE Brown Belt

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    Man that was the greatest idea EVER. They should start MMA matches after the round in the same position as the previous round ended. Maybe not in submissions etc..but if some one had the back..they start from the back..if they had them mounted..start from mount. That would be great.
     
  8. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    I believe that every BJJ academies should offer and make space/time for both types of students.

    It is a great sport and self defense MA.

    At the end, Helio Gracie had a simple program of 40 private classes where his student would grasp the basic and be a blue belt.
     
  9. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    Nah the end of a round is a end of a round it would not make sense to do that from an audience stand point I see what you mean but to the casual fan ( and the ufc needs to cater to them ) It just wouldnt fly . you have 5 mins to do what you can do in one round then its a clean slate for the next one .
     
  10. Mat Nemesis**

    Mat Nemesis** Green Belt

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    most of the fights i have been in that someone landed on the ground i ended up soccer kicking the guy.
     
  11. curb1850

    curb1850 Green Belt

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    Every fight I have seen with little exception has gone to the ground eventually. If your worried about his/her friends booting you in the head when you go to the ground, your pretty much screwed anyway.
     
  12. HardEight

    HardEight Blue Belt

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    So you soccer kick your opponent from the ground?
     
  13. GJJ fighter

    GJJ fighter Orange Belt

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    I think a BJJ sportive guy could defend himself in the street, but saying that I still believe you need to have more than a sportive game. I know from training sport now that a lot of those techniques could be applied in the street, but I also kno a lot couldnt be. The gaurd game of sportive and self defense are completely different in my opinion after training both self defense and sport. The way you set up submissions will be a lot different in a self defense enviroment when someone is throwing punches at you. I believe that mount is basically the same sportive and self defense I dont see much difference at all then maybe a few things. Side mount can be different in sportive compared to self defense though, the way you control someone and position your body would be different in self defense compared to sport. Takedowns can be much different I believe as a lot of them can be applied by the gi. The mind set of sportive training and self defense training would be the biggest difference in my opinion. Sportive training youre always looking for the submission, not worried about strikes anything else your just looking for a submission, working the gi in, or working on something specific, but in a fight you may be more defensive protecting yourself from the strikes while trying to work submissions in without getting hit or risking losing the fight by a chaotic attempt from the attacker.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  14. POPPA ROTZEE

    POPPA ROTZEE Brown Belt

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    No, what doesn't make sense is there BEING clean slates at the end of a round. In boxing it makes sense...rounds are meant to give the boxers a rest so that they can keep the fight exciting so that they don't get so tired that they can't even generate enough power to knock each other out and you end up with the audience watching two exhausted guys barely throw horrible punches.

    It makes sense in boxing because there is only one position....standing. MMA is different, there are multiple positions but this should still be simulating a fight. The rounds are fine..keep them to give the fighters a break and allow them to recuperate so that can continue the fight invigorated and keep the fight exciting...but don't erase everything one person has done up to that point.

    That logically doesn't make any sense. Why should a guy who got dominated and put in a bad position like being mounted with 10 seconds to go, be allowed to escape? Thats like a get out of jail free card just because the round for them to rest HAPPENED to be there. No..I don't think you have to start them hand for hand exactly the position they were in..but they should have a general position for all mounts, side control half guard restarts at the round.

    I think this would make more sense and keep the fight more realistic, which is what the UFC was supposed to be anyway, right?
     
  15. dirtypablo

    dirtypablo Brown Belt

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    Most men arent Roger Huerta.
     
  16. KaosX

    KaosX Banned Banned

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    I don't think BJJ ever expected itself to handle every situation, and because of that it breeds the "seek stand up training" beyond throws from other disciplines.

    This is why a lot of people do BJJ and MT together. The basics of muay thai are somewhat easy to learn and applicable. You learn striking, spacing and timing.

    If it goes to the ground - fill in the blanks - use the eye gouges, groin hits, strikes as needed and take your chokes a bit longer til they're out or have a broken arm.

    An untrained person on the ground is easier to beat than an untrained person on their feet in my experience.

    Keep in mind that the percentage of fights going to the ground is a dumb debate for BJJ practictioners...we WANT the fight on the ground if it's just two of us.

    If there's multiple guys I'm moving away, making space and if necessary will draw my gun.
     
  17. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    This is representative of the non-defense of the art used by most practitioners today. Originally it was a devastating self-defense and fighting art. Now practitioners don't even try to engage on that ground.
     
  18. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    "Most fights go to the ground."

    Most people are chumps with no training who either fall over because of nonexistent wrestling skills or get knocked down because of nonexistent boxing skills. Sure, nearly all fights turn into grappling (in the clinch), but that doesn't mean you have to go to the ground to finish the fight. If MMA fighters can sprawl 'n' brawl against trained professionals, so can you against some belligerent drunkard.

    Obviously, I'm a proponent of learning the ground game for the FUBAR scenarios, I just don't think it's healthy to preach that the ground is inevitable, because it certainly isn't, and staying on your feet will always be safer strategically speaking.
     
  19. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I'd argue that most street fights are probably over in 10 seconds if they're not broken up by then. The first guy to get a clean hit (usually the first guy to throw a punch) usually wins.
     
  20. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    As a fan (or enemy) of stats, I am not happy with these guys just throwing numbers out there like 95 percent of fights go to the ground, 84 percent of fighters are wrestlers etc.

    My experience has taught me that when people start throwing out numbers, they can't really be trusted.

    YouTube - Professor Scott Steiner math lesson

     

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