VIDEO Boxing Sparring: High Guard

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by dryingpole10, May 23, 2014.

  1. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3
    I first want to apologize to Sinister, I promised in the last video thread that I would devote my next sparring video to slipping left and using the left hip more. I really tried but I couldn't do it. I figured I would at least try just near exclusively using the high guard defense to serve as an interesting contrast to my last video.

    A guy: I tried to incorporate a few things you mentioned. I tried to set up my right hand following the jab, which I was successful with a few times. I also changed my slapping hooks to same hand uppercuts to being reverse hand uppercuts. I didn't land it too clearly however.

    Apizur: I used the high guard that you seem so fond of. I tried to fight off my jab more. I also think I didn't get hit with many clean right hands because of my use of the high guard.

    Things I tried to do:
    1. Control the fight with my jab more, follow up with right hands. I think I did this well.

    2. Use the high guard to get hit with less right hands, I think I was successful in this.



    Problems:
    1. I tried to move while shelling up which lead to a lot of awkward movement and me getting hit in weird spots. It looked really bad.

    2. I should not move around with a high guard, I should try to use my gloves to pick off incoming shots while I am moving.

    3. The high guard seems to stifle my movement and vision a bit.

    4. I want to work more off my jab and work in more combination punching on a consistent basis.

    5. I couldn't slip left on a consistent basis, I just didn't have a good grasp of his right hand to be honest.

    I was not that pleased with this session to be honest. I feel like it was a step back from my last one in some ways.

    As always enjoy the video and critique!

    r3
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ayajedWZQ

    r2
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEqTQuQRFdg

    r1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0AO7bKwxY
     
  2. Babba

    Babba Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    8
    3 things i pick up right away: rotate more on your left hook with your hip and leg. sometimes when you either right straight or right uppercut, you sell yourself cheap and an observant guy would left hook on that. your face comes too much forward, try to rotate through the body instead. finally your guard isnt tight enough, and it isnt coming back correctly so it ties into selling yourself cheap with the openings. like sometimes in the video he left hooks you cause you dont pull your arm fast enough back to guard.

    im working on a lot of these things myself thats why im seeing it.
     
  3. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,769
    Likes Received:
    4,315
    Location:
    Vegas
    Your back foot being in a bucket is a lot of why you had difficulty moving defensively unless he was already so far away it didn't matter.
     
  4. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,016
    Likes Received:
    1,304
    Notice that using a higher guard (more consistently threatening left hand), the session naturally took place at a farther range. Both of you had to work past each other's jabs to get the combinations working, and honestly neither of you were notably successful doing it most of the time. More importantly, you aren't comfortable countering out of a high guard. So you got hit less, but you also hit him less. The feeling I get about you is that your mentality isn't one of an outside fighter, it's one of someone who likes to scrap in the pocket. That's just who you are. Remember how YCM was telling you to switch your defense up? This session gives you a good understanding of how that affects the pace and range. Having your hands higher, lead hand in their face is going to slow it down and force them to think about HOW they're gonna get close to you if they want to. Or, conversely, how you're gonna get close to them if you want to. When you remove that lead hand as a threat and show them something to hit, the pace immediately picks up and the distance gets a little closer. The opponent gets more willing to throw because he thinks he won't have to work as hard to land--he can see his targets.

    Anyway, you'll notice that in the second round the intensity and activity naturally goes up a bit. However, your partner is still struggling to get in on you. He starts spending a lot of energy looking for openings, and you're able to catch him with a couple clean right hands (like at 1:40) because he's starting to lead with hooks and is getting a bit more desperate. This reinforces that the guard you're using makes him work harder, and if he doesn't approach that intelligently he's going to create openings for you.

    This is teaching you about the application of your tools. Think about how you can use this information to dictate pace and range passively. You can influence where the fight takes place with your hand position. The effects will vary on different opponents of course, but you can play with that to get a subtle form of control. You can start off with a high guard. Probe, feint, get a feel for the guy's rhythm, tendencies and range. Pick away at him, definitely keep working that body jab. When you're comfortable, get into your crab position and look to beat him up in the pocket/on the inside. You can change guards around in there depending on what you wanna do. When you need space, get your hands back up and that jab working again. The keys will be refining your work from the crab if you choose to continue pursuing that, and increasing your effectiveness on the outside to at a bare minimum enough that you aren't gonna get outpointed there.

    I think Sinister nailed it about the position of the right foot in your trouble slipping left. On top of that, you don't look comfortable from an inside slip position. You end up there in the first after trading right hands, and you choose to break posture ducking under while your opponent takes the initiative and goes for a hook even though his positioning isn't too much better. Here:

    [​IMG]

    This is an example of when you can use the inside slip. Your knees are bent and your hips are lower than his, whereas his legs are straighter and get even more so when he throws the next punch. Your back foot is out behind your hips though (his is too) and your left hand isn't ideally positioned. You would want to get your right foot up closer and pull your lead elbow back to make some space to punch. This would leave you balanced, and with a very open target. It's hard not to drool at that juicy liver, and it's yours for the taking with better positioning and confidence!

    By the way, your left uppercut on the inside isn't working because you aren't stopping him from throwing at you while you throw it. You aren't creating space properly because you're giving him space to hit you too. Put simply, your right hand isn't doing enough and you aren't moving enough. Watch the way Toney does it:

    [​IMG]

    First, he's actually punching with his right hand. Make this a chopping right hook or very tight overhand (from farther away) behind his guard. Just pawing at his glove isn't doing enough, you need to either pin the glove completely and hold it there, or you need to punch behind it. Notice also how far Toney can make his opponent move. The opponent has to commit to a pivot to keep Toney in front of him, and the hook landing chops his head down and forward, leaving him in prime position for that uppercut, which then creates an opening for a much harder right hook around the guard. Toney hesitates a little throwing the uppercut so it doesn't land as well as it could've. But they key is he's disrupting his opponent's stance and guard enough that the opponent has to adjust before hitting him. Notice also that he's putting the back of his lead glove against the opponent's lead glove. Just to put a little pressure on it so he can check that hand as he moves and maybe even trick the opponent into pushing against it. The way you're currently attempting this, the kid just throws at the same time you do because nothing is stopping him from doing so. Make sure you hit him and turn him with the right, then look for the uppercut if it's there.

    I really like when you start throwing rights to the body in the last round. Blind him with your jab, crack around his lead elbow with your right hand. It's nice when you do that, then transition into your crab position as you step in and maybe look for your right uppercut to the head. I think transitioning smoothly between ranges and guards is what you're gonna get out of this. Thanks for sharing as always!
     
  5. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    916
    Likes Received:
    18
    I liked fake to the head and jab to the body.
    Also just jab to the body without the fake worked really good.
     
  6. apizur**

    apizur** Aggressive Finesse.

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,794
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Tampa
    I saw you K.O. him 15 seconds in. I stopped watching after that.
     
  7. apizur**

    apizur** Aggressive Finesse.

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,794
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Tampa
    1: I've gotta say right in round one, you are using two different jabs, but you're really starting to own that lead jab compared to the last few I've seen. You do this pawing jab thing (which is OK in the right moment) but all it looks like you want to do is the pawing thing. My guess is you're using it to control distance, which is great, but you don't seem to be in the mindset to do anything else but paw when you're pawing.
    Your gloves are shutting down probably 60% of his power shots and I'm impressed at how mindful you are of keeping your left up. You drop it when you back out still but so do I. We shouldn't, but it happens. If you compare the single punches that you blocked just by having your hands up versus the ones that he ate just because his were below his chin... I think you'll see that there's a time and place for the high guard.
    >>>I'm not saying the high guard is the best guard, I've just been saying that you could make use out of it in the right spots.
    Now, before I progress to the next round, you've developed this little thing where you come forward to punch, then bend forward at the waist and look at the ground. I'm curious to see if you continue doing it.

    2. You've turned your palm in and he's trying to bait your pat out so he can hook at :31... you don't give in but you see he goes for the hook anyway, and you found the big opening he created by feinting his hand forward but not pulling it back. At 1:13 you do what I was hoping to see, and you switch from your pawing jab right into a stiff jab AND you capitalize on the position you gain from it, not a huge flashy combination... but high in the boxing IQ. Looks like you frustrated him enough to get him to really swing, most of which you caught on the gloves. THAT is a good time for the high guard. At 2:01 it didn't take him long to recognize your low guard, but so far that's only the second straight right I've seen you take cleanly. You're starting to find a home for that block-and-counter left hook more and more.

    3: Round 3 was just an entertaining round. I saw you working some angles while pushing him to the ropes, a lot of uppercuts and a lot of responsibility when bringing your hands back up on the inside.

    Was this the same dude???

    Also, if you ever buy different shoes let us know, I can only identify you by your white shoes.
     
  8. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks for the feedback Babba. I'm always changing the way I throw my left hook, I throw so many different versions that sometimes it gets a little messy. I definitely agree that I should have thrown a more committed one when I saw the openings. And leaning too forward on my right hand is a habit I have had from before that I am trying to break. Is it weird that I intentionally leave that opening because I am waiting for his response?
     
  9. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3
    You nailed it perfectly Sinister. My back foot was simply too far out, now I am really making sure to keep it under me. You were able name the source of the root of my problem with so few words, bravo. I think my back foot was too far out and I would let myself get too square in the stance when shelling up.
     
  10. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3
    Fantastic criticism as always Aguy. You're right the different guards invite the opponent to fight in different ranges. I should take note of that.

    Things I will try and work on next time:

    1. Ditch the slapping right hook, at least when he is in a position to throw, and instead throw a more authoritative right hook with the hopstep to gain position like the Toney video. I should also use my left hand to pin his gloves a little more.

    2. Get the back foot under my weight more, it was too far out. The elbow position I will do as well.

    3. I should be more consistent with setting up shots with my jab, I felt I did it a couple times pretty well but I should really hammer it in more.

    4. I do like to scrap, especially if I feel I have a power advantage over the guy. But polishing my outside fighting is really important still.

    I will implement all of these things next time. Thanks again!
     
  11. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks man!
     
  12. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3
    Haha yeah I should say who I am in my posts, I keep forgetting. It was the same dude. I am throwing that pawing jab a lot I agree, I am trying to control distance with it, get into rhythm, and get a feel for the opponents timing with it. As I improve more I suspect I will have to do it less. You're right I need to mix in more hard jabs, I am still working on that.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this?

    "Now, before I progress to the next round, you've developed this little thing where you come forward to punch, then bend forward at the waist and look at the ground. I'm curious to see if you continue doing it."

    Would you mind clarifying?

    Yeah the high guard definitely has some uses, I just think my implementation of it was a bit sloppy. Do you think I am better off exclusively using this guard over the low lead hand guard?

    Thanks for the feedback man!
     
  13. apizur**

    apizur** Aggressive Finesse.

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,794
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Tampa
    Just feel it, but "educate your jab" with your footwork in practice. One thing I've really gotten a handle on is jabbing while stepping any direction. So while I jab coming forward or circling left, the jab balances on the rear foot... if I jab stepping backwards or circling right, the jab balance on the front foot. The big advantage to this is if you're backing up and waiting to set you have to back up fast enough to create the distance to get set... where as if you jab with one of your back steps you CREATE that distance and are set after the punch. It's a cool tool to play with when it comes to shutting down offensive strings, and it works great for me off of a high guard or a shoulder guard as long as I'm not leaning too far back.

    It's just a bad position, ripe for uppercuts and body punches.
    2:21 wasn't awful, but it was where I first spotted it.
    2:29, 2:35,
    2:52 was probably the worst of them, it just looked like you got over your front foot too much and the weight of having your hands out front required an adjustment. I didn't notice it after that so I'm guessing you made the adjustment.

    Well, I did want to say: If this was the same guy, you shut down 50% of his offense compared to last time. He couldn't even find the right hand. With this specific guy, yes.
    But overall, no, I think you should be wary to which guard is serving you best against a particular opponent, and in particular times. In boxing range, your shoulder guard works somewhat well, in power range it creates that hole for right hands but sets you up for left hooks, in tight it kept one side of your head completely open... so my point was just to be adaptable and willing to use the high guard when you needed it.

    I definitely gave him the last sparring session, and I definitely give this one to you. It was like night and day.
     
  14. Talibankocken

    Talibankocken Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    The place where the pepper grows
    Charlie Z approves.
     
  15. dryingpole10

    dryingpole10 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    3

    I see what you are talking about the bad position you mentioned but here is my perspective. I am doing those moves on purpose, it's basically a slip after my punches so I have built in defense up close. You see it still present in the other rounds when I throw my right, he comes back with a left hook and a right hand which I duck low from afterwards. I don't think it's a vulnerable position at all because it puts my body off center and limits some of his offense. It also creates new angles for me. But I think my foot placement with it was problematic, I think I am too leaned forward when I do it.

    I do feel that I got hit less, but I also feel that I hit him less.

    Anyhow thanks for the feedback.
     
  16. apizur**

    apizur** Aggressive Finesse.

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,794
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Tampa
    Control won those rounds, not volume. Looking forward to more.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.