[VID] Rare footage of Mitsuo Maeda's judo exhibition (1912?)

[Furiosozen]

This Youtube video was firstly posted on Facebook my a brazilian organization of BJJ roots and history. They claim this is the first "high quality" video of Mitsuo Maeda performing a judo demonstration.

First the video brings two unknown judokas performing. Maeda shows up at 1:43:

[YT]e8YDAcca7PE[/YT]

According to the Facebook description, that record is from 1912 (therefore, before he went to Brazil), but I'm questioning that date because the video scenery seems like an entrance of a japanese edification and Maeda spent that year entirely in Cuba.

 

[Deleted member 245586]

nice

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I can never get over how, by today's standards, these old videos show such sloppy technique and phony looking transitions. The same goes for that old Gracie JJ vid from the 50's. If we saw someone doing the same today, we would say that it was garbage. Compare this video and the one I mentioned, to the video of Royler and Rickson in Pride, where the technique is crisp and smooth.

I also notice the similarities between these moves and Helio's "core curriculum."

 

[Shemhazai]

Yeah, that looks like TMA garbage for the most part by today's standards. That being said, I'm sure the sportive variant was a lot more realistic than the self defense demos.

 

[mixmaster staph]

I dunno, I thought the last minute or so was pretty good.

 

[Shemhazai]

Maeda looked a lot sharper than the other guys, I agree. Considering the fact that he took challenge matches all over the world, he was undoubtedly a legit badass capable of applying his skill effectively.

 

[Einarr]

It looks like they're demostrating techniques in a kata fashion. Kata, to me at least, always looks unrealistic and robotic.

 

[gorillajump]

Some of the awkwardness may have come about because of the video capturing process - the tori and uke can't go too fast for the camera, which could throw off timing and movement. Some might also be because the camera output frame rate isn't high enough to show smooth movement.

I'm not a film nut, so I don't know when the frame rate started getting high enough to not be somewhat strobe-like in effect. Some wiki digging says that the early silent films (around the time Maeda was demonstrating these moves) were at 14 fps or slightly over and audiences had a problem with the jerky motion they showed.

The easiest explanation is that the techs were being sloppily demonstrated though.

 

[oyaji poi]

From 1:30 he does a Single Leg Boston Crab, then a couple of other moves from Tony Cecchine's catch instructional (of dubious real-world application).

 

[jr jr]

The gi portion did not satisfy the template. Disqualification!

Joke

 

[cuality]

Some of the awkwardness may have come about because of the video capturing process - the tori and uke can't go too fast for the camera, which could throw off timing and movement. Some might also be because the camera output frame rate isn't high enough to show smooth movement.

I'm not a film nut, so I don't know when the frame rate started getting high enough to not be somewhat strobe-like in effect. Some wiki digging says that the early silent films (around the time Maeda was demonstrating these moves) were at 14 fps or slightly over and audiences had a problem with the jerky motion they showed.

The easiest explanation is that the techs were being sloppily demonstrated though.

Charlie Chaplin effect.

I think also the time period explains the mannerisms and postures but overall the demonstration of technique looks fine to me.

 

[jclaudevandamme]

Say whatever you want but Maeda is a classy bastard. Would drink tea with.

 

[seatea]

I doubt it's Maeda and Tenjin Shin'yo-ryu rather than judo which would explain the TMA'ish nature as that style was taught through katas.

I first saw this vid on the Bartitsu Society YT channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVyBQxo4yk

Description:

This fascinating piece of newsreel film was probably shot in Paris during 1912. The first section shows Takisaburo Tobari demonstrating a formal series of jiujitsu waza (techniques), partnered by Taro Miyake. There follows a spectacular display of jiujitsu as gentlemanly self defence against "apaches" (Parisian street gangsters)

I'll ask elsewhere for extra info.

 

[krept]

So if the improvements occurred in Brazil, whether reimagining leverage, eliminating space or keeping pressure during transitions... who was responsible?

That is what I was trying to get at on the other thread albeit in a clumsy manner. If the knowledge were available to a great degree in Japan, would we not see such innovation there? I'm not talking about a static photo of an armbar but rather what happens prior to that.

I'm trying to narrow down the options... Faddas, Carlos, Helio? Maeda at a later date?

 

[seatea]

If the knowledge were available to a great degree in Japan, would we not see such innovation there?

There was plenty of innovation in Japan, just not in Jujutsu.

 

[krept]

I apologize for not being more specific.

Rambo's statements made me wonder:

I can never get over how, by today's standards, these old videos show such sloppy technique and phony looking transitions. The same goes for that old Gracie JJ vid from the 50's. If we saw someone doing the same today, we would say that it was garbage. Compare this video and the one I mentioned, to the video of Royler and Rickson in Pride, where the technique is crisp and smooth.

Seatea, would you say that innovation in this particular aspect was also occuring in Japan at the same time?

Specifically, I am referring to the fluid transitions between positions and those things occuring prior to a submission. Taking into account technological limitations of the original video, the part around 3:11 deviates from the "its over at ippon" structure. Some may say that was pure flash for show. I feel its as least as likely that he truly felt that was a viable and accurately-executed technique at that time.

 

[deadlizard]

There was plenty of innovation in Japan, just not in Jujutsu.

Like rape and pillage?


(sorry, couldn't resist. Should take this to war room.)

 

[seatea]

I apologize for not being more specific.

Rambo's statements made me wonder:


Seatea, would you say that innovation in this particular aspect was also occuring in Japan at the same time?

Specifically, I am referring to the fluid transitions between positions and those things occuring prior to a submission. Taking into account technological limitations of the original video, the part around 3:11 deviates from the "its over at ippon" structure. Some may say that was pure flash for show. I feel its as least as likely that he truly felt that was a viable and accurately-executed technique at that time.

You have to understand that the above video shows jujutsu, not judo, and the standard teaching method for them was kata*. There were plenty of techniques shown that are most likely not viable in real life, and many of the techniques that are viable were badly performed. With judo came regular, safe sparring and competition, where the bad techniques get filtered out, and wrinkles in good ones are ironed out. IMHO jujutsu seemed to 'evolve' by copying the developments of other arts, judo, various wrestling styles etc

As to groundwork, many of the improvements made in Japan came from schools using the Kosen ruleset (the triangle for one), the judo equivalent of scholastic wrestling, which favoured groundwork as a way the reduce injuries. They would have been different to the developments in Brazil due to the ability to win by pin. Many of these skills are still taught by older judo teachers, but they can be hard to find as the IJF started to discourage ne-waza younger coaches/competitors never bothered to learn it as it was unlikely to be anything they could use to win under the IJF rules.

Introducing competition can be a double edged sword as many become solely interested in winning medals (Brian Jacks, a famous British judoka, admitted to having no particular attachment to judo, it was just what he was best at, and therefore most likely to win in). However, overall the benefits are worth it.

*That's not to say that some jujutsu schools didn't produce good fighters, off the top of my head Yukio Tani was one such fighter.

Like rape and pillage?


(sorry, couldn't resist. Should take this to war room.)

Rape and pillage was already a time honoured tradition by 1912.

 

[mattemate]

I'd seen this before but did not realize it was Maeda. Screw the sloppiness, the music alone makes it worth it. I half expected to see Charlie Chaplin come strolling along.

 

[krept]

Seatea, thanks for the elaboration. I remember reading Danaher's excellent commentary regarding the benefits of a sportive approach. Seeing the video given the additional context makes it even more intriguing.