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International Venezuela, The Socialist Dystopia, v2: The region's worst humanitarian crisis in decades

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Arkain2K, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Venezuela crisis: Brazil to send army to safeguard border


    Brazil says it is sending its army to the Venezuelan border to "guarantee law and order" amid an influx of migrants fleeing the crisis-hit country.


    President Michel Temer said in a televised address on Tuesday that Venezuela's "tragic" situation threatened peace across South America.

    Millions of Venezuelans have fled their country due to hyperinflation, and food and medicine shortages.

    Brazil's move follows recent border clashes between locals and Venezuelans.

    Following those clashes, President Temer sent a small contingent of troops to the border town of Pacaraima, where the unrest happened.

    On Tuesday, he signed a decree which will deploy soldiers for two weeks along the border and federal roads of its northern state of Roraima.

    "The problem of Venezuela is no longer one of internal politics. It is a threat to the harmony of the whole continent," Mr Temer said.

    In addition to ensuring the security of Brazilians, the soldiers' role is also to look after the Venezuelan migrants' safety, the president stated.

    Meanwhile, neighbouring Peru has declared a 60-day health emergency in two provinces on its northern border, after health authorities expressed concerns of the spread of diseases from migrants.

    What is happening in Venezuela?

    Venezuela is in its fourth year of an economic crisis, brought on by a crash in oil prices in 2014.

    Four in five Venezuelans live in poverty, and people queue for hours to buy food while others are dying from a lack of medicine.

    This was compounded by Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro's decision in August to issue a new currency to manage the country's runaway inflation - a move that caused widespread confusion.

    Some 2.3 million citizens have fled the country since 2014, sparking the worst migration crisis in Latin American history, according to the United Nations.

    Regional tensions have been stoked, as neighbouring countries struggle to accommodate the exodus of Venezuelans.

    The UN's migration agency said last week Venezuela is heading for the same refugee "crisis moment" seen in the Mediterranean in 2015.

    What are neighbouring countries doing?

    [​IMG]

    There are more than a million Venezuelans in Colombia, more than half a million in Ecuador, more than 400,000 in Peru and some 60,000 in Brazil.

    Brazil has not said how many of its armed forces will be sent to police the border this week.

    One minister told journalists that troops were already in place, while another warned Brazil "needs to discipline" the influx of migrants.

    This month, Peru began tightening its border by requiring passports instead of national ID cards from Venezuelan migrants.

    The first day the new rule was instituted, Peru reported a more than 50% drop in the number of migrants. But hundreds more without passports entered the country by seeking asylum.

    Similar regulations were introduced in Ecuador, only to be overturned by a court ruling.

    Brazil's northern state of Roraima has also had its attempt to close the border with Venezuela thrown out by a judge.

    Violence erupted in Pacaraima last week when local residents attacked makeshift camps housing Venezuelan migrants. The camps were burned down and the occupants temporarily fled back across the border.

    Despite the violence, the number of Venezuelans crossing daily into Brazil has continued to rise.

    Foreign ministers from Ecuador, Colombia and possibly Peru and Brazil are expected to meet and discuss Venezuelan migration in Ecuador next week, after top immigration officials met at an earlier summit in Colombia's capital Bogotá.

    Where is Venezuela in all this?

    Many are blaming Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his socialist government for the dire state the nation is in and the exodus of its citizens.

    He blames "imperialists" - the US and Europe - for waging "economic war" against Venezuela and imposing sanctions on many members of his government.

    The head of Venezuela's constituent assembly suggested the country's escalating migration crisis was being staged to make the government look bad.

    "Doesn't it strike you as suspicious there are photos of [these people] walking along the roadside in Peru, walking along the roadside in Ecuador, walking along the roadside in Colombia," said Diosdado Cabello, according to local media.

    "It's as if it was: 'Lights, camera, action!' It's a campaign against our country," Mr Cabello said last week.

    On Tuesday, Venezuelan state media reported 89 citizens had been repatriated from Peru after being exploited there.

    Critics however called the move a publicity stunt.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45338769
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  2. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Venezuela: Migration agencies say exodus of migrants nears a 'Mediterranean crisis point'
    • More than 1.6 million Venezuelans have fled the country's economic and political turmoil
    • The exodus is overwhelming neighbouring countries, some are tightening entry rules
    • Venezuela's inflation rate is expected to reach 1 million per cent this year
    [​IMG]

    Growing numbers of people are fleeing the economic meltdown and political turmoil in Venezuela, threatening to overwhelm neighbouring countries.

    Officials from Colombia, Ecuador and Peru will meet in Bogota next week to discuss the crisis. In Brazil, rioters this month drove hundreds of people back over the border. Peru tightened entry rules for Venezuelans, requiring them to carry passports instead of just national ID cards, though a judge in Ecuador rolled back a similar rule enacted there.



    Describing those events as early warning signs, a spokesman for the International Organisation for Migration (IOM), Joel Millman, said funding and means of managing the outflow must be mobilised.

    On Thursday, the IOM and UN refugee agency UNHCR called on Latin American countries to ease entry for Venezuelans, more than 1.6 million of whom have left since 2015.

    'Is UNHCR going to take responsibility?'

    [​IMG]

    Peru's top immigration official, Eduardo Sevilla, said Peru would exempt some Venezuelans from the passport requirement, including parents with children seeking to join the rest of their family, pregnant women and the gravely ill.

    But he said authorities would also be looking out for people trying to evade the new rule by claiming refugee status.

    "Is UNHCR going to take responsibility if that person commits a crime?" Mr Sevilla told Reuters on Friday.

    "Our priority is to contribute to security and internal order by clearly identifying people."

    UNHCR spokesman Andrej Mahecic said governments had made "commendable" efforts even though some reception capacities and services were overwhelmed.

    An Ecuadorean judge lifted an order requiring that Venezuelans hold passports to be allowed entry, in response to a lawsuit filed by Ecuador's state ombudsman together with local human rights groups.

    Ecuador's Government said it would respect the decision to allow migrants to enter on their Venezuelan identification cards. But it said that the identification cards would have to be accompanied by a "certificate of validation" issued by Venezuela or an international agency recognized by Ecuador.

    Ecuador said the measure was intended to protect its own citizens. It did not say when it would take effect.

    Inflation to reach 1m percent

    Venezuela's Information Minister Jorge Rodriguez said on Friday that a new package of economic measures meant to address hyperinflation would win over Venezuelans who had left the country.

    This week Venezuela cut five zeros from prices and pegged the country's currency to an obscure state-backed cryptocurrency.

    Critics slammed the plan as inadequate in the face of inflation that topped 82,000 per cent in July and is expected to reach 1 million per cent this year.

     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  3. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  4. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  5. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  6. Pessimystic

    Pessimystic Asteroid Belt Banned

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    This isn't real Socialism, though, doncha know?

    Plus, Brazil is obviously racist. CNN told me borders and enforcing them is Hitler part zwei, so it must be true.
     
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  7. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Venezuela's Latest Lurch Into Insanity:
    Maduro mandates that the country's banks now must accept "Petro" cryptocurrency

    Simon Constable | Aug 31, 2018

    [​IMG]
    Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro launching the Petro, an oil-backed cryptocurrency.'​

     
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  8. Oeshon

    Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

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    All of this happening and people still insist socialism is a good idea.
     
  9. Sano

    Sano Red Belt

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    Who does?
     
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  10. Oeshon

    Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

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    a lot of people...

    hell, there are even a few on this forum like Homersimpson.
     
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  11. Sano

    Sano Red Belt

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    Would you say that Bernie Sanders is a socialist, and would you make the distinction between what's described as a social democracy, or democratic socialism, and the socialism seen in Venezuela?
     
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  12. Tiny

    Tiny Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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  13. Oeshon

    Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

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    Bernie Sanders loves him some socialism.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Sano

    Sano Red Belt

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    Ugh, do we really have to do this shit first before we can have a real conversation?

    First picture is falsely presented as a quote by Sanders. It is from an article written by the "Valley News Editorial Board" from 2011, although it is visible his website: https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/close-the-gaps-disparities-that-threaten-america

    I don't really get what the clip is proving? It is taken from this press conference in 1985:


    Here you see the context of what he was saying. He was saying that millions of people are dying of starvation and in that sense having food lines are a better alternative. He was speaking out against Reagans initiative to invade Nicaragua, and against Imperialism. Just as he spoke out and voted against the Irak and Afghan wars.

    Now, it's pretty obvious that Sanders has sympathies towards the idea of socialism, especially the aspects that cover safety nets and healtcare for the people. He is running on the platform of Democratic Socialism, or rather, a Social Democracy. He often points to Scandinavia in that regard, but most of Europe would fall under that category including Germany, France, the UK and so on. The issue here is defining terms.

    I am Danish and I think we have one of the best systems in the world. We are not socialists however, the government doesn't control the entire means of production, but we are definitely a social democracy. We blend our system with capitalism and very strong social institutions and services. Free market economy, strong unions, universal health care, good safety nets, high wages, good infrastructure and so on. We also invest a great deal into education and skill training, which is why we have an extremely flexible work force. The Washington Post wrote a pretty good article on how our economic system functions actually. We rank 7th in the world on Forbes list right now as a place to do business (1), which is 5 places higher than the US, and we are also 12th on the economy freedom index, which is 8 places higher than the US (2). Add to that, we are the second least corrupt country in the world according to business insider, vastly above the US, (3) and we also have the third lowest Gini-coefficient which makes us one of the most equal countries in the world (4). I'd like to think we know a few things about setting up a good system.

    So what exactly is Bernie Sanders proposing?

    1. Universal Healthcare
    2. Tuition free education
    3. Investment in infrastructure and skills training
    4. Getting money out of politics, and putting forth legislation to combat corruption and lobbyism
    5. Raising the minimum wage and strenghtening unions and workers rights
    6. Taxing the richest in the country more and closing loopholes
    7. Not subsidizing big business with tax payer money
    8. Cutting military spending
    8. Limiting the NSA's ability to invade citizens right to privacy
    and a few more I'm sure I'm missing right now.

    This is exactly what we do here. That would just make you more like us, and the rest of Northern and Western Europe really. I honestly can't see a single issues with any of those propositions.

    I know you are trying to obfuscate my point, so I ask you again. What, in your eyes constitute socialism, and would you differentiate betweem socialism and social democracies? This is very important to clarify. There is a HUGE difference betweem liberal "socialism" with a strong democracy compared to a one party Marxist-Lenin socialist totalitarian state.

    Personally I would probably define myself as someone who is a liberal democratic socialist. Meaning that I believe in individual rights and a strong market economy, with important regulations that protect the people and social programs that insure a good quality of life and a flexible workforce.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  15. Oeshon

    Oeshon ช่างมันเถอะ

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    I think we just found the type of poster I was initially referring to! lol
     
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  16. Rematch

    Rematch Female oil checking = AWESOMENESS!!!!!

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    And how wards of your system would praise Venezuela?
     
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  17. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Latin America Nations in Crisis Summit Amid Venezuela Exodus
    By Stephan Kueffner | September 3, 2018

    [​IMG]
    Ministers from Latin American nations start a two-day meeting on Venezuela


    Government officials from across Latin America and the Caribbean are meeting in Quito to coordinate a response to the regional humanitarian crisis caused by Venezuela’s economic collapse.

    Representatives from Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Costa Rica, Panama, Dominican Republic and Ecuador are gathering on Monday and Tuesday to discuss how to respond to mass migration from the Caribbean nation, and how to protect vulnerable Venezuelans from xenophobia and exploitation by black-market employers and criminal gangs.

    “It’s clear that this is going to keep increasing,” said Christian Kruger, the head of Colombia’s migration authority, in an interview at the event. “Migration that is driven by hunger won’t be stopped by a visa or any other document.”

    More than two million Venezuelans are now living outside their homeland as part of a migration crisis that’s become particularly acute across Latin America this year. Colombia and Ecuador have been most affected, though Brazil recently authorized the use of its armed forces to help contend with a jump in Venezuelans crossing into its territory, while Peru declared a border emergency on health and sanitation concerns due to increased migration. Nations as far as Uruguay are also experiencing a rise in flows.

    Colombia, which has found it impossible to control the flow across its 1,400-mile border with Venezuela, is using the meetings to reiterate its call to “regionalize” the problem, to help shoulder the burden. Colombia is calling on its neighbors to be more flexible in demanding documents, since Venezuela is barely issuing passports any more.

    Colombia has realized that insisting on documentation from people who can’t obtain it doesn’t curb migration, but rather drives it underground, which is worse for both the migrants and the host nation, Kruger said.

    Until recently, Ecuador had been one of Venezuela’s main allies in the region. But the government of President Lenin Moreno, which took office in 2017, has distanced itself as Venezuela has become gripped by mass hunger and political repression.

    Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro’s failed policies and unchecked government spending have turned what once was one of Latin America’s wealthiest countries into a disaster. Shortages of food and medicine are ongoing, public transportation is erratic and lack of electricity and water has become much more commonplace.

    Earlier waves of Venezuelan migration tended to have more resources and education, Kruger said. Now, they are crossing the border on foot without any money at all, and walking and hitchhiking across Colombia, he said.

    On Monday, top-ranking Venezuelan officials including Vice President Delcy Rodriguez denounced reports of a growing exodus as “fake news,” and a propaganda campaign designed to pave way for foreign intervention.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...spurs-crisis-meeting-by-neighboring-countries
     
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  18. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Venezuela says migration flows are 'normal'
    September 3, 2018

    [​IMG]
    Venezuela's Vice President Delcy Rodriguez talks to the media during a news conference at Miraflores Palace in Caracas, Venezuela, September 3, 2018


    CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela’s government on Monday said migratory patterns out of the OPEC nation are “normal” and that the situation was being exaggerated to justify an intervention by foreign powers.

    The United Nation’s migration agency last month said the exodus of citizens out of Venezuela, which is suffering a hyperflationary economic collapse, is nearing a “crisis moment” comparable to situation of refugees in the Mediterranean.

    “There has been an intent to convert a normal migratory flow into a humanitarian crisis in order to justify an international intervention in Venezuela,” said Vice President Delcy Rodriguez at a press conference. “We will not allow it.”

    She criticized foreign agencies for relying on figures of Venezuelan emigration provided by other countries but did not provide Venezuela’s own figures.

    The Information Ministry did not respond to an email seeking additional information.

    [​IMG]
    A man gets off the bridge as people queue to try to cross the Venezuela-Colombia border through Simon Bolivar international bridge in San Antonio del Tachira, Venezuela, August 3, 2018.


    The U.N. migration and refugees organizations said in a joint statement in August that 2.3 million Venezuelans are currently living abroad and that more than 1.6 million have left since 2015.

    Images of Venezuelans leaving the country on foot through Colombia to escape hyperinflation and food shortages have sent alarm bells through the region as countries such as Ecuador, Peru and Chile seek to prepare for the growing flow of migrants.

    Venezuelan officials have described such scenes as having been staged by the media and political adversaries to tarnish the government of President Nicolas Maduro.

    The government last month announced it had repatriated 89 Venezuelans from Peru after they complained of being humiliated treatment.

    Migration officials from countries around South America on Monday began a two-day meeting in the Ecuadorean capital of Quito to discuss regional strategies for managing the influx of migrants, with conclusions to be announced on Tuesday.

    Colombia, Peru and Ecuador on Thursday asked for international aid to manage the migration surge that is overwhelming public services.

     
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  19. Rematch

    Rematch Female oil checking = AWESOMENESS!!!!!

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    If Caracas Cathy says so.
     
  20. Tiny

    Tiny Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    She's using Miss Merkle's playbook.

    [​IMG]
     

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