Venezuela Meltdown and Zika Virus

[clmetal]

1.- No, Venezuela wont go the way of those countries because it doesnt has ethnic conflicts, nor there is a soviet block willing to introduce war in the region anymore.

2.- Yes, its quite likely for the virus to spread pretty quickly in Venezuela with the current state of affairs.

3.- Its not socialism what fucked Venezuela, is good, old, hispanic corruption mixed with a system which makes corruption 1000% worse.

It's also socialism. Their educated and business owners have left. When africa chased those people away (kicked out white people like Teresa Heinz Kerry (her dad was a doctor)) they didn't recover. . (Now they just havr an jnflux of natural resource money)

I think Chavez acted the way he did just to keep oil prices high

 

[Rod1]

It's also socialism. Their educated and business owners have left. When africa chased those people away (kicked out white people like Teresa Heinz Kerry (her dad was a doctor)) they didn't recover. . (Now they just havr an jnflux of natural resource money)

I think Chavez acted the way he did just to keep oil prices high

Africa has massive ethnic conflicts and the vast majority of the population was in an extreme oppressed state to develop any form of functioning government, thats why crazy people manage to get power, the fact that opposition managed to snatch away congress despite all the efforts by Maduro is a testament that the country can recover.

We had our Hugo Chavez and Maduro here in Mexico, but due to the nature of the political system they were out once they terms ended.

Venezuela can and will recover eventually.

 

[clmetal]

Possum u are defending what Venezuela has become ? It's a nightmare. . There are food lines for thr basics and really bad crime

I went in 2001 (bad then) and i was supposed to go again 3 months ago. I got to the border and they wouldnt let me in. It closed after i had alfeady booked a flight to Cúcuta

Its a sad situation

 

[clmetal]

Africa has massive ethnic conflicts and the vast majority of the population was in an extreme oppressed state to develop any form of functioning government, thats why crazy people manage to get power, the fact that opposition managed to snatch away congress despite all the efforts by Maduro is a testament that the country can recover.

We had our Hugo Chavez and Maduro here in Mexico, but due to the nature of the political system they were out once they terms ended.

Venezuela can and will recover eventually.

Didn't they nationalize a Mexican owned concrete company under chavez? . That doesn't make people want to invest.

Ive been to every spanish speaking country but 2 (dr & spain). I wouldn't compare Venezuela to any other.

I have friends there and friends here who left there. They would be way more harsh than i am.

 

[Rod1]

Didn't they nationalize a Mexican owned concrete company under chavez? . That doesn't make people want to invest.

Ive been to every spanish speaking country but 2 (dr & spain). I wouldn't compare Venezuela to any other.

I have friends there and friends here who left there. They would be way more harsh than i am.

They still had to indemnice the company.

 

[JadeOwl]

That's if the new government gets rid of them.

And that's a big if because the programs are so popular and effective the opposition won on a pledge to keep them while making reforms on other fronts. But what do the Venezuelan people know, right?

I'm not saying that the programs themselves were bad. I'm saying that if things continue the way they are going they won't have a choice because they will not have enough money to keep them going.

Oh right, mighty Venezuela with their whopping 50th-ranked GDP (more or less on par with Peru- lol) and their massive 27 million people somehow coerced all the other South American nations into this union that they run with an iron hand.

#7 Brazil and #24 Argentina? They had no chance so they just have to play along. Why? Because oil.

While the oil money was rolling in Chavez used it liberally to what for all intends and purposes was bribe many of the politicians in the region. Or have you forgotten about the briefcases going to Buenos Aires?

And it's well know that the Secretariat of UNASUR is mostly staffed by Chavez's and the Kirchners' creatures.

This shit is like the Red Scare in the US in the 1950s when the Soviet Union was this unstoppable empire manipulating everything even outside its borders. Except the USSR really was a superpower while Venezuela is a medium, developing country with a lot of oil.

Chavez threw money around like it grew on trees during the high oil prices period. It didn't work everywhere but it work in plenty of places. Even here!

Did you read the article?

The government's fixed prices for staples are at such low values shops lose money if they sell them - so they don't.

It's not a sub-Saharan Africa-style famine. There's plenty of basics, sellers simply want to maximize their income and profit.

You clearly don't have the grasp of economics the gods gave a brick wall.

Fixed prices don't just mean that "shops stop selling the products" it means that the manufacturers stop producing them. Do you really think that all the stuff is locked away in warehouse because because the shopkeepers don't want to sell them? When the government tries to put a ceiling on prices the producers stop producing and what little gets produced ends up in the black market.

Don't you remember what that shit was like here in Peru? Don't you remember Garcia's first term? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I'm not saying that the programs themselves were bad. I'm saying that if things continue the way they are going they won't have a choice because they will not have enough money to keep them going.

Then we're in agreement. Chavez installed programs that worked and that helped millions of people and that no other Venezuelan administration installed in the many other oil boons throughout their history.

I wasn't arguing that Maduro was managing them wonderfully.

While the oil money was rolling in Chavez used it liberally to what for all intends and purposes was bribe many of the politicians in the region. Or have you forgotten about the briefcases going to Buenos Aires?

And it's well know that the Secretariat of UNASUR is mostly staffed by Chavez's and the Kirchners' creatures.

Yeah, I don't think $800k is going to be enough to bribe a major economy like Argentina into something as big and important as a regional organization.

Not even the richest country in the history of the world (the US) has enough money to bribe 12 nations with 400 million + people into joining a union that THEY run. OAS kinda started like this and that was back when the US was even richer than it is now and South America was poorer and more submissive.

There's no logical reason for UNASUR to have any one nation as its hegemon.

You clearly don't have the grasp of economics the gods gave a brick wall.

Fixed prices don't just mean that "shops stop selling the products" it means that the manufacturers stop producing them. Do you really think that all the stuff is locked away in warehouse because because the shopkeepers don't want to sell them? When the government tries to put a ceiling on prices the producers stop producing and what little gets produced ends up in the black market.

Don't you remember what that shit was like here in Peru? Don't you remember Garcia's first term? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I was a child during Garcia's first term but I get what price controls means.

I responded to that guy because I assume that like most gringos, he groups all Third World nations together so when they hear "They're forming lines for basic supplies!" they think it's a Somalia or Congo situation where people are literally starving on the streets.

I was just explaining that that isn't the case. The shortages are a result of companies' desire to maximize profit, not because there's no food around.

 

[Rod1]

Then we're in agreement. Chavez installed programs that worked and that helped millions of people and that no other Venezuelan administration installed in the many other oil boons throughout their history.

I wasn't arguing that Maduro was managing them wonderfully.




Yeah, I don't think $800k is going to be enough to bribe a major economy like Argentina into something as big and important as a regional organization.

Not even the richest country in the history of the world (the US) has enough money to bribe 12 nations with 400 million + people into joining a union that THEY run. OAS kinda started like this and that was back when the US was even richer than it is now and South America was poorer and more submissive.

There's no logical reason for UNASUR to have any one nation as its hegemon.








I was a child during Garcia's first term but I get what price controls means.

I responded to that guy because I assume that like most gringos, he groups all Third World nations together so when they hear "They're forming lines for basic supplies!" they think it's a Somalia or Congo situation where people are literally starving on the streets.

I was just explaining that that isn't the case. The shortages are a result of companies' desire to maximize profit, not because there's no food around.

I like you as a poster but you are certainly dellusional if you think its all shit and giggles in Venezuela. Or that its corruption and poverty problems are comparable to other latin american nations. Its hell in Venezuela and its the fault of the regime.

 

[kintana]

Yes, it has oil, but it also has crippling debt, and it keeps rising and rising.

The need to get their economy running back ASAP.

It wont happen ASAP. First the currency controls need to be removed. Many businesses even airlines have stopped doing business with Venezuela.

Two chavez wasted our two best industries outside of oil. Tech and Auto, you may not know it but automakers loved working in venezuela pre chavez. Tech has a lot of potential venezuela has a lot of tech talent.

Tourism is strong but it cannot carry our economy.

Realistically we need oil back to 100 a barrel. But that might not happen for another 5 years.

Venezuela needed to learn this lesson. We will never make this mistake again of voting this way. Chile learned, Argentina is learning it, China learned it, Vietnam learned it. And now venezuela is learning it.

 

[kintana]

Then we're in agreement. Chavez installed programs that worked and that helped millions of people and that no other Venezuelan administration installed in the many other oil boons throughout their history.

I wasn't arguing that Maduro was managing them wonderfully.




Yeah, I don't think $800k is going to be enough to bribe a major economy like Argentina into something as big and important as a regional organization.

Not even the richest country in the history of the world (the US) has enough money to bribe 12 nations with 400 million + people into joining a union that THEY run. OAS kinda started like this and that was back when the US was even richer than it is now and South America was poorer and more submissive.

There's no logical reason for UNASUR to have any one nation as its hegemon.








I was a child during Garcia's first term but I get what price controls means.

I responded to that guy because I assume that like most gringos, he groups all Third World nations together so when they hear "They're forming lines for basic supplies!" they think it's a Somalia or Congo situation where people are literally starving on the streets.

I was just explaining that that isn't the case. The shortages are a result of companies' desire to maximize profit, not because there's no food around.

This is where I disagree having lived in venezuela until recently. The scarcity of food and basic goods was very common even in 2007. Now it reach drastic proportions but I remember shopping for food in 2010 and they had rationing or the national guard gave out the basic goods.

Maduro gets a lot of the blame but it was all chavez's fault. This was going to happen with chavez because it was happening under chavez. You may not know but when chavez won in 2012 he wanted to install 21st century bolivarism. What he wanted to know was implement a nation wide rationing system for 10 years. Why?

Because he knew massive rationing was coming. But his reasoning was because we all need to eat less. The first massive rationing for shampoo happened in 2011 during the chavez years. So you cannot blame Maduro.

The thing was and you couldn't believe unless you saw it. The people truly loved chavez like you would love your mother. Even if your mother smokes, drinks and sleeps all day you still love her. When chavez was president people were willing to overlook the problems. And in to be honest the best thing chavez could have done for his legacy was die. Because if he was alive now he would absorb the blame. But his legacy to those idolise him is now untarnished.

The only reason chavez managed to help the poor was because oil was high. In fact one of the most honest pollsters in Venezuela even said in 2008. The only thing that will defeat chavez is low oil prices.

Remember Chavez's appointed minister of finance in 2007 predicated oil in 2014 will be $200 a barrel. Which is the amount we need to balance the budget.

Chavez also wasted a lot of money on failed projects. 30 billion was given to china to build a new national railway system by 2015 for venezuela. The project hasn't even started and we are in 2016.

Billions was spent in the tech industry to make computers. Some money is missing and the rest wasted I guarantee you have never seen a venezuelan made laptop outside of certain cities in Venezuela.

The socialist motorcycles sold well for 4 years and now the company is defunct. The food processing plants need a loan from china.

But the worst mistakes he made were the deals he negotiated that now Maduro has to suffer. In 2013 Maduro flew to china to renegotiate and get 5 billion dollar loan. The original deal with China that Chavez negotiated was China would get $40 a barrel for oil, since 2007. Maduro tried to ask for higher prices and money. China said no and gave maduro $5bn in electronic goods like washing machines.

I remember the event it was very funny. He came back with washing machines and gave them in a lottery to the poor. While people couldn't buy chicken, soap, shampoo.

I am going back to Venezuela soon for vacation. I already have been asked by 20 people even some chavistas to bring back shampoo and toothpaste.

 

[JadeOwl]

Yeah, I don't think $800k is going to be enough to bribe a major economy like Argentina into something as big and important as a regional organization.

Not even the richest country in the history of the world (the US) has enough money to bribe 12 nations with 400 million + people into joining a union that THEY run. OAS kinda started like this and that was back when the US was even richer than it is now and South America was poorer and more submissive.

There's no logical reason for UNASUR to have any one nation as its hegemon.

Again your are being deliberately disingenuous. Nobody is talking about bribing entire countries, you bribe a few politicians at the top. And Chavez had more than enough money to buy a few hundreds of people. More than enough.

And $800K is only the one briefcase that got caught. The gods only know how many more changed hand before and after.

I was just explaining that that isn't the case. The shortages are a result of companies' desire to maximize profit, not because there's no food around.

It does mean that there's no food. It's not a matter of profit, when there are price ceilings in place the producers often can even cover their costs so they simply don't produce. To say nothing of the laundry list of products that the Venezuelans can't even produce and have to import but can't any more.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I like you as a poster but you are certainly dellusional if you think its all shit and giggles in Venezuela. Or that its corruption and poverty problems are comparable to other latin american nations. Its hell in Venezuela and its the fault of the regime.

WTF? Seriously?

Kintana himself has been saying for years that it's bad, but not what the Miami Venezuelan hysterics scream about. I have an uncle that's done business in Venezuela for years and he says the same thing: yeah, there are some problems but a lot of good things, too.

And there are plenty of measures of quality of life, poverty, per capita GDP, etc., and in all Venezuela is right along the other middle-income Latin American nations. So yeah, they are actually very comparable.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

This is where I disagree having lived in venezuela until recently. The scarcity of food and basic goods was very common even in 2007. Now it reach drastic proportions but I remember shopping for food in 2010 and they had rationing or the national guard gave out the basic goods.

Maduro gets a lot of the blame but it was all chavez's fault. This was going to happen with chavez because it was happening under chavez. You may not know but when chavez won in 2012 he wanted to install 21st century bolivarism. What he wanted to know was implement a nation wide rationing system for 10 years. Why?

Because he knew massive rationing was coming. But his reasoning was because we all need to eat less. The first massive rationing for shampoo happened in 2011 during the chavez years. So you cannot blame Maduro.

The thing was and you couldn't believe unless you saw it. The people truly loved chavez like you would love your mother. Even if your mother smokes, drinks and sleeps all day you still love her. When chavez was president people were willing to overlook the problems. And in to be honest the best thing chavez could have done for his legacy was die. Because if he was alive now he would absorb the blame. But his legacy to those idolise him is now untarnished.

The only reason chavez managed to help the poor was because oil was high. In fact one of the most honest pollsters in Venezuela even said in 2008. The only thing that will defeat chavez is low oil prices.

Remember Chavez's appointed minister of finance in 2007 predicated oil in 2014 will be $200 a barrel. Which is the amount we need to balance the budget.

Chavez also wasted a lot of money on failed projects. 30 billion was given to china to build a new national railway system by 2015 for venezuela. The project hasn't even started and we are in 2016.

Billions was spent in the tech industry to make computers. Some money is missing and the rest wasted I guarantee you have never seen a venezuelan made laptop outside of certain cities in Venezuela.

The socialist motorcycles sold well for 4 years and now the company is defunct. The food processing plants need a loan from china.

But the worst mistakes he made were the deals he negotiated that now Maduro has to suffer. In 2013 Maduro flew to china to renegotiate and get 5 billion dollar loan. The original deal with China that Chavez negotiated was China would get $40 a barrel for oil, since 2007. Maduro tried to ask for higher prices and money. China said no and gave maduro $5bn in electronic goods like washing machines.

I remember the event it was very funny. He came back with washing machines and gave them in a lottery to the poor. While people couldn't buy chicken, soap, shampoo.

I am going back to Venezuela soon for vacation. I already have been asked by 20 people even some chavistas to bring back shampoo and toothpaste.

Yeah, it was obvious that a country so dependent on a resource that is so volatile on the international market is going to see-saw right along with it. I mean, that's even true here in the US. I live in Houston and the oil drop has affected the economy a lot.

Chavismo was popular when oil was high and they won election after election. Now that it's getting low it's losing power and losing elections. It makes sense to me. But the propaganda is strong so Chavismo is made out to be this unstoppable juggernaut that tramples over helpless people.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Again your are being deliberately disingenuous. Nobody is talking about bribing entire countries, you bribe a few politicians at the top. And Chavez had more than enough money to buy a few hundreds of people. More than enough.

And $800K is only the one briefcase that got caught. The gods only know how many more changed hand before and after.

Pretty funny that you keep calling me disingenuous and obtuse when you're the one suggesting that Chavez systematically bribed "a few politicians at the top" of every single South American country in order for him to create a regional bloc.

Again, even the US (at its economic peak, immediately after WWII) didn't bribe nations into joining OAS, but Chavez, the leader of a country with a GDP similar to Peru's, somehow, did just that to create UNASUR.

Sorry, but that's just too much fantasy for me. That sounds like the most crude, un-sophisticated anti-Soviet propaganda of back in the day.

 

[clmetal]

WTF? Seriously?

Kintana himself has been saying for years that it's bad, but not what the Miami Venezuelan hysterics scream about. I have an uncle that's done business in Venezuela for years and he says the same thing: yeah, there are some problems but a lot of good things, too.

And there are plenty of measures of quality of life, poverty, per capita GDP, etc., and in all Venezuela is right along the other middle-income Latin American nations. So yeah, they are actually very comparable.

People living there right now are just sd harsh about the situation. They can't make enough money to eke out a living and the crime situation is reaaly bad.

No one for example would wear jewlery or pull thrir cell phone out in public

It's very cheap if u go over with dollars but the people who live therr make nothing. When i tried to go in November people were literally walking through thr river to entrr Colombia

 

[Rod1]

Pretty funny that you keep calling me disingenuous and obtuse when you're the one suggesting that Chavez systematically bribed "a few politicians at the top" of every single South American country in order for him to create a regional bloc.

Again, even the US (at its economic peak, immediately after WWII) didn't bribe nations into joining OAS, but Chavez, the leader of a country with a GDP similar to Peru's, somehow, did just that to create UNASUR.

Sorry, but that's just too much fantasy for me. That sounds like the most crude, un-sophisticated anti-Soviet propaganda of back in the day.

Ill put it this way, would you trust a human rights study on freedom in islamic countries carried by UNHRC lead Saudi Arabia?

 

[kintana]

People living there right now are just sd harsh about the situation. They can't make enough money to eke out a living and the crime situation is reaaly bad.

No one for example would wear jewlery or pull thrir cell phone out in public

It's very cheap if u go over with dollars but the people who live therr make nothing. When i tried to go in November people were literally walking through thr river to entrr Colombia

People are escaping to colombia. It is funny cuz in the 90s colombians tried to enter Venezuela.

The truth is the venezuelan currency is worthless. When my dad was was a student he could travel to france with bolivars (venezuelan currency) in his pocket and it would be accepted.

Today you can have 60million bolivars and 900,000US. And no bank outside of venezuela wants it.

 

[TeTe]

On that subject, Venezuela has had clean elections for over a decade. It was clean when the Chavistas won and it's clean now that they lost. Funny how you stopped hearing all that shit about rigged elections when they lost last year and calmly gave up power.

It's not that the elections where rigged, it's that Chavez had their constitution re-written so that he'd never be ousted from office.

 

[clmetal]

People are escaping to colombia. It is funny cuz in the 90s colombians tried to enter Venezuela.

The truth is the venezuelan currency is worthless. When my dad was was a student he could travel to france with bolivars (venezuelan currency) in his pocket and it would be accepted.

Today you can have 60million bolivars and 900,000US. And no bank outside of venezuela wants it.

When i went in late 2000 or early 2001 thr rate wasn't fsr off the pegged rate of 6.3

When i tried to go in November i got more than 800 to a dollar. The largest Bs is 100 and for $40 usd, i got a brick of 100s in return. . Now the rate is more than 1000 to one.

 

[kintana]

I took a friend to margarita island in 2013. He spent 300 euros total for a amazing vacation lobster, kite surfing, private island day all this awesome stuff. Today the same trip cost 30 euros.