1. Server maintenance is scheduled for today between 11AM and 2PM ET. The site will go down for 15-20 mins. We'll try to get it done before noon.

Velasquez Headbutting & JDS Holding the Cage

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by StoicSD, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. StoicSD Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    0
    Herb Dean is probably the best ref out there along with Big John, but I feel he should have penalized both JDS and Cain.

    First of all every time Cain tried to take Junior down, JDS would hold on for dear life to the cage, Herb repeatedly told him to stop holding the cage and it effectively stopped Cain from being able to take him down a couple of times.

    Also I don't think he warned Cain once to be careful with the headbutts, which were dished out almost every time they clinched, a lot of those headbutts were pretty strong too.

    I want Cain to win again but I think both of these things significantly affected the fight, what say you?
     
  2. Chez Man Cometh White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Im curious how much Junior's case of Rhabdo played into the fight. I read a bit about the affects and it seems to be pretty debilitating.

    He should have those issues cleared up considering his extensive work with doctors during this camp.

    It will be interesting to see if he is able to maintain a higher level of cardio throughout the fight if he is not "over trained".
     
  3. berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    12,495
    Likes Received:
    3
    never heard much complaining about the headbutts. Guys fight for head position all the time against the cage. Dont be stuck against the cage.

    JDS should have been penalized for sure but i guess it was such a beating they had mercy on him.
     
  4. 315MMAFighter MąïȚře Đë Đəğåť§ - Pure Dominican Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    13,909
    Likes Received:
    863
    Location:
    Nǝʍ ⅄oɹʞ Ɔᴉʇʎ
    Never really noticed JDS holding the cage too much, not on a noticeable level anyhow
     
  5. Senzo Tanaka Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    14,396
    Likes Received:
    383
    I'm a bit more tolerant of cage grabs. It's just instinct that you are going to grab something when you fall. You should definitely be warned and if it's blatant grab to keep from being taken down like the Aldo/Mendes fight, then you dock them.

    I do remember Cain using his head a lot. It was weird to see.
     
  6. StoicSD Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's my point, I didn't notice it either the first time, if you happen to watch it again now that it's on your radar you will be impressed it was about 4-5 combined (headbutts+cagegrabs) violations per round.
     
  7. TFanatic Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    10,898
    Likes Received:
    0
    Even one fence grab is a cut worthy offense to the sherdog police.
     
  8. SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    30,257
    Likes Received:
    821
    he did all throughout their 2nd bout. it was discussed a lot at the time, but most were willing to shrug their shoulders since he was getting the living shit beat outta him.

    i didn't notice the head butts though. guess i'll have to watch it again and look for em.
     
  9. Rex Kwon Do ál-ḥámdúlílláh

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    14,108
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    Tíshník
    He did it like 10+ times in the second Cain fight.
     
  10. sp00k 5 Steps Lower

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cape Cod born & raised
    I saw JDS holding the cage in their 2nd fight. It bothered me a lot.

    It goes unpunished after so many warnings. It is fucking ridiculous. "Do it again, -1 point."

    How hard is that? I know it is a natural instinct to grab when you fall but... people will exploit it until something is done.
     
  11. MC King Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Turkey, Istanbul
    Don't forget about that illegal kick JDS landed on the ground

    Cain was going for an armbar, punching JDS's body with his free hand and JDS landed an illegal kick, plus he was holding the cage the whole time.

    it should have been 50-42 decision for Cain not 50-43...


    :icon_twis
     
  12. Gerald Ford Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Im wondering if JDS will end up like Brock with career ending medical conditions, (not long after fighting Mir)
     
  13. Chez Man Cometh White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco
    The grabbing the cage thing is a tough issue for me when looking at fights.

    On the one hand, the rule is black and white but I see two diff cases.

    One - (Tito vs Rashad example) a fighter is in on a shot against the cage, the defending fighter is battling for position and uses the cage for leverage. Clearly against the rules and should be a point deduction.

    Two - (JDS v Cain) a fighter is back peddling and trying to avoid the shot while the offensive fighter manages to hit a low single or sweep a back peddling fighters ankles from under him. It doesn't matter who you are, a natural reaction is going to be to put your arms back as your falling to brace for impact. If you're falling into the cage it only makes sense that the defending fighter will make some attempt at the cage as he is falling. Doesn't make it right per se but it is more excusable than a blatant grab.
     
  14. Judoxing Red Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    9,257
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Headbutts are intentional strikes using the head. In wrestling, heads collide almost every time you enter the collar tie. Its called head fighting, its a way to gain leverage and control your opponent.
     
  15. eXtv Red Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    Messages:
    7,647
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    I rewatched the first part of the fight a couple of days ago and it was pretty bad. He grabbed the cage like 3 or 4 times in the first 2 rounds.
     
  16. faustian I'M NOT A MONSTER Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    48,920
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    Location:
    Miami
    Headbutts can happen inadvertently but few things rustle me more than grabbing the cage. If it prevents a legit takedown then a point should be taken every time it happens and that's the bottom line. Maybe then fighters would think twice about doing it because as it is now, fighters don't even hesitate to grab the cage if they can.
     
  17. GustavHolst** Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,978
    Likes Received:
    0
    I counted 11 times on my first watch. It was extremely obvious.
     
  18. Break Brick Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,352
    Likes Received:
    0
    gifs or
    [​IMG]
    gtfo
     
  19. MC King Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,432
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Turkey, Istanbul
  20. SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    30,257
    Likes Received:
    821
    like i said before, it was discussed quite a bit. but most (reasonable? non-idealist?) fans basically shrugged it off since he was getting his ass beat so bad.

    methinks there is a time & place for everything. and complaining that a guy who lost 50-44 didn't get a point or 2 taken away.....

    that doesn't condone fence grabbing. it just recognizes that there is a time & place for everything.

    and yes, he was very guilty of it.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.