Velasquez Headbutting & JDS Holding the Cage

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by StoicSD, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. StoicSD

    StoicSD Banned Banned

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    Herb Dean is probably the best ref out there along with Big John, but I feel he should have penalized both JDS and Cain.

    First of all every time Cain tried to take Junior down, JDS would hold on for dear life to the cage, Herb repeatedly told him to stop holding the cage and it effectively stopped Cain from being able to take him down a couple of times.

    Also I don't think he warned Cain once to be careful with the headbutts, which were dished out almost every time they clinched, a lot of those headbutts were pretty strong too.

    I want Cain to win again but I think both of these things significantly affected the fight, what say you?
     
  2. Chez Man Cometh

    Chez Man Cometh White Belt

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    Im curious how much Junior's case of Rhabdo played into the fight. I read a bit about the affects and it seems to be pretty debilitating.

    He should have those issues cleared up considering his extensive work with doctors during this camp.

    It will be interesting to see if he is able to maintain a higher level of cardio throughout the fight if he is not "over trained".
     
  3. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    never heard much complaining about the headbutts. Guys fight for head position all the time against the cage. Dont be stuck against the cage.

    JDS should have been penalized for sure but i guess it was such a beating they had mercy on him.
     
  4. 315MMAFighter

    315MMAFighter MąïȚře Đë Đəğåť§ - Pure Dominican Platinum Member

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    Never really noticed JDS holding the cage too much, not on a noticeable level anyhow
     
  5. Senzo Tanaka

    Senzo Tanaka Silver Belt

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    I'm a bit more tolerant of cage grabs. It's just instinct that you are going to grab something when you fall. You should definitely be warned and if it's blatant grab to keep from being taken down like the Aldo/Mendes fight, then you dock them.

    I do remember Cain using his head a lot. It was weird to see.
     
  6. StoicSD

    StoicSD Banned Banned

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    That's my point, I didn't notice it either the first time, if you happen to watch it again now that it's on your radar you will be impressed it was about 4-5 combined (headbutts+cagegrabs) violations per round.
     
  7. TFanatic

    TFanatic Silver Belt

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    Even one fence grab is a cut worthy offense to the sherdog police.
     
  8. SeattleFightFan

    SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

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    he did all throughout their 2nd bout. it was discussed a lot at the time, but most were willing to shrug their shoulders since he was getting the living shit beat outta him.

    i didn't notice the head butts though. guess i'll have to watch it again and look for em.
     
  9. Rex Kwon Do

    Rex Kwon Do ál-ḥámdúlílláh

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    He did it like 10+ times in the second Cain fight.
     
  10. sp00k

    sp00k 5 Steps Lower

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    I saw JDS holding the cage in their 2nd fight. It bothered me a lot.

    It goes unpunished after so many warnings. It is fucking ridiculous. "Do it again, -1 point."

    How hard is that? I know it is a natural instinct to grab when you fall but... people will exploit it until something is done.
     
  11. MC King

    MC King Green Belt

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    Don't forget about that illegal kick JDS landed on the ground

    Cain was going for an armbar, punching JDS's body with his free hand and JDS landed an illegal kick, plus he was holding the cage the whole time.

    it should have been 50-42 decision for Cain not 50-43...


    :icon_twis
     
  12. Gerald Ford

    Gerald Ford Purple Belt

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    Im wondering if JDS will end up like Brock with career ending medical conditions, (not long after fighting Mir)
     
  13. Chez Man Cometh

    Chez Man Cometh White Belt

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    The grabbing the cage thing is a tough issue for me when looking at fights.

    On the one hand, the rule is black and white but I see two diff cases.

    One - (Tito vs Rashad example) a fighter is in on a shot against the cage, the defending fighter is battling for position and uses the cage for leverage. Clearly against the rules and should be a point deduction.

    Two - (JDS v Cain) a fighter is back peddling and trying to avoid the shot while the offensive fighter manages to hit a low single or sweep a back peddling fighters ankles from under him. It doesn't matter who you are, a natural reaction is going to be to put your arms back as your falling to brace for impact. If you're falling into the cage it only makes sense that the defending fighter will make some attempt at the cage as he is falling. Doesn't make it right per se but it is more excusable than a blatant grab.
     
  14. Judoxing

    Judoxing Red Belt

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    Headbutts are intentional strikes using the head. In wrestling, heads collide almost every time you enter the collar tie. Its called head fighting, its a way to gain leverage and control your opponent.
     
  15. eXtv

    eXtv Red Belt

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    I rewatched the first part of the fight a couple of days ago and it was pretty bad. He grabbed the cage like 3 or 4 times in the first 2 rounds.
     
  16. faustian

    faustian THE LOOSE CANNON Platinum Member

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    Headbutts can happen inadvertently but few things rustle me more than grabbing the cage. If it prevents a legit takedown then a point should be taken every time it happens and that's the bottom line. Maybe then fighters would think twice about doing it because as it is now, fighters don't even hesitate to grab the cage if they can.
     
  17. GustavHolst**

    GustavHolst** Purple Belt

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    I counted 11 times on my first watch. It was extremely obvious.
     
  18. Break Brick

    Break Brick Black Belt

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    gifs or
    [​IMG]
    gtfo
     
  19. MC King

    MC King Green Belt

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  20. SeattleFightFan

    SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

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    like i said before, it was discussed quite a bit. but most (reasonable? non-idealist?) fans basically shrugged it off since he was getting his ass beat so bad.

    methinks there is a time & place for everything. and complaining that a guy who lost 50-44 didn't get a point or 2 taken away.....

    that doesn't condone fence grabbing. it just recognizes that there is a time & place for everything.

    and yes, he was very guilty of it.
     

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