vegetarian diet

[Origins]

Vegetarianism as a moral belief system is about causing the least amount of suffering possible, not necessarily "not eating things that don't want to die", because, as you have stated, everything is adverse to dying. Sure, it may not be natural, but we as humans have progressed such that we can alter traditional dietary patterns. If someone feels that they would prefer not to eat meat for various moral reasons how does it affect you? Why does it make vegetarians stupid? How is that "vaginitis"?

So would you eat animals if you knew they had died naturally as opposed to being slaughtered?

It obviously doesn't directly affect me, but I am an opinionated, argumentative person who likes discussing things like this with other people. It strikes me as vaginal and stupid for exactly the things I said in my previous post.

The "vaginitis" was a reference to South Park, by the way.

 

[NickNack]

Yes, assuming it was fresh.

I understand your reasoning for why "not eating meat because animals don't want to die" is stupid. I agree, that is ridiculous, everything has evolved such that it avoids death, and therefore one could not eat anything. However I argue that most vegetarians are vegetarians to minimize the amount of suffering they cause. Is that also stupid? I am open for discussion.

 

[Origins]

Yes, assuming it was fresh.

I understand your reasoning for why "not eating meat because animals don't want to die" is stupid. I agree, that is ridiculous, everything has evolved such that it avoids death, and therefore one could not eat anything. However I argue that most vegetarians are vegetarians to minimize the amount of suffering they cause. Is that also stupid? I am open for discussion.

Would you eat a big, greasy cheeseburger if you knew that steer was slaughtered by butchers who had come up with a method void of pain or suffering like a lethal injection?

I would argue that most vegetarians are opposed to eating meat because they don't like the fact that animals have to be killed in order for people to enjoy meat.

 

[Origins]

Googling "vegetarianism" I found this site, which was the most organized and official-looking one I saw:

GoVeg.com // Vegetarian 101

Some of their reasons for vegetarianism were from animal cruelty concerns, but a lot of them were related to animals dying and human health concerns.

Every year in the U.S., more than 27 billion animals are slaughtered for food. Raising animals on factory farms is cruel and ecologically devastating. Eating animals is bad for our health, leading directly to many diseases and illnesses, including heart attacks, strokes, cancer, diabetes, and obesity. In response to animal welfare, health, and ecological concerns, compassionate people everywhere are adopting a vegetarian diet.

One suggestion: If you plan to make the transition to a vegetarian diet gradually, the most important foods to cut out of your diet first are bird flesh and eggs. While many people think that

 

[shootermcgavin7]

I would argue that most vegetarians are opposed to eating meat because they don't like the fact that animals have to be killed in order for people to enjoy meat.

You might be correct, although there are likely plenty of them (likely athletes) who do it for health reasons and could care less about any peta advertising campaigns. This is all off-topic nonsense, though. The TS did not give his reasons why, or ask for opinions on his reasons....he just asked for a critique of his diet.

 

[shootermcgavin7]

Their "health" reasons are typical bullshit and I am sure that they exaggerate the cruelty to which animals are subjected on most farms.

Feel free to critique the health reasons, but at least comment on what part of the empirical methodology you disagree with in the top peer-reviewed Nutrition journal.

Meat consumption and prospective weight change in ... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2010] - PubMed result

 

[unregisturd]

Of course there's a difference, but (taking your comparison) if your ok eating babies while there still in the womb why be so against eating them once they're born.
It's stupid to compare eating an egg to abortion and eating meat to murder. As i'v said before not eating meat is not going to save the animal from being raised for food.
Anyways im just venting because iv never understood vegetarians taking up the moral ground and yet still eating eggs and stuff. Obviously you guys will have your own views and your entitled to them.

Meh, I'm not a veggo anymore anyways

But to take your somewhat morbid example of canabalism, you seriously can't distinguish the difference between life post and in utero?

Dude, there is a huge difference, sentience being one of them. The other is that unborn babies taste WAY better... Duh....

 

[Origins]

Feel free to critique the health reasons, but at least comment on what part of the empirical methodology you disagree with in the top peer-reviewed Nutrition journal.

Meat consumption and prospective weight change in ... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2010] - PubMed result

I'm not sure which part of that abstract you think supports all the crap on that GoVeg site. Anyway, here are my thoughts.

With adjustment for estimated energy intake, an increase in meat intake of 250 g/d (eg, one steak at approximately 450 kcal) would lead to a 2-kg higher weight gain after 5 y (95% CI: 1.5, 2.7 kg).

1. 4.4 pounds gained in 5 years? That is 0.88 pounds per year, or less than two hundredths of a pound per week. Suffice it to say, I am not too concerned.

2. The scientists did not test bodyfat% or LBM in these subjects, which leaves open the very real possibility that a significant portion of this weight gain was muscle mass.

 

[redjako]

Hrm, nice troll job.

 

[NickNack]

Would you eat a big, greasy cheeseburger if you knew that steer was slaughtered by butchers who had come up with a method void of pain or suffering like a lethal injection?

I would argue that most vegetarians are opposed to eating meat because they don't like the fact that animals have to be killed in order for people to enjoy meat.

No, because I consider premature death suffering. Most vegetarians would agree. Again I am not trying to "avoid killing anything that does not want to die", I am simply trying to avoid things that I consider to have a higher sentience.

 

[NickNack]

Meh, I'm not a veggo anymore anyways

But to take your somewhat morbid example of canabalism, you seriously can't distinguish the difference between life post and in utero?

Dude, there is a huge difference, sentience being one of them. The other is that unborn babies taste WAY better... Duh....

Not to mention that only upon rare occasion are store-bought eggs capable of being hatched, because most are unfertilized, and therefore it is not like abortion at all.

 

[Blown Away]

lmao at everything in this thread... like EVERYTHING

bodybuilding.com go there for nutrition needs

 

[immovablestone]

bodybuilding.com go there for nutrition needs

 

[shootermcgavin7]

I'm not sure which part of that abstract you think supports all the crap on that GoVeg site. Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I actually misread part of your post and apologize - I was speaking more generally, not about material on a propaganda website.

1. 4.4 pounds gained in 5 years? That is 0.88 pounds per year, or less than two hundredths of a pound per week. Suffice it to say, I am not too concerned.

2. The scientists did not test bodyfat% or LBM in these subjects, which leaves open the very real possibility that a significant portion of this weight gain was muscle mass.

1) The average weight of a very large population is five lbs heavier than that of another. It is a pretty huge number, statistically speaking.

And 2) is a fair point, LBM is not a dependent variable. But they control for protein intake. Also, most of the effect is from red meat. So for the difference to be LBM, different sources of protein have to have varying effects on LbM.

Anyway, I believe there are studies showing that bodyweight is positively correlated with death rate. All else equal, the average 6'0", 170lb guy will outlive the average 6'0", 255lb guy, even if both are at 3% body fat. That was my original point- there can be valid health reasons to limit meat consumption.

 

[Origins]

1) The average weight of a very large population is five lbs heavier than that of another. It is a pretty huge number, statistically speaking.

And 2) is a fair point, LBM is not a dependent variable. But they control for protein intake. Also, most of the effect is from red meat. So for the difference to be LBM, different sources of protein have to have varying effects on LbM.

Anyway, I believe there are studies showing that bodyweight is positively correlated with death rate. All else equal, the average 6'0", 170lb guy will outlive the average 6'0", 255lb guy, even if both are at 3% body fat. That was my original point- there can be valid health reasons to limit meat consumption.

I don't see where in that abstract it says they adjusted for or controlled protein intake. I also don't see where it says that most of the effect was from red meat.

I would very much like to see the full study. I am sure that there were differences in weight gain between genders and among age groups. I would also be interested in a more detailed description of their methods.

 

[Origins]

No, because I consider premature death suffering. Most vegetarians would agree. Again I am not trying to "avoid killing anything that does not want to die", I am simply trying to avoid things that I consider to have a higher sentience.

I don't see how that would be suffering. Does it pain the animal's soul? Its last thought in the world was a happy one. It experiences no pain or fear.

 

[NickNack]

I don't see how that would be suffering. Does it pain the animal's soul? Its last thought in the world was a happy one. It experiences no pain or fear.

Physical pain is only one form of suffering.

 

[bobthebuilder]

wow, this thread has taken off since yesterday. I'll reply more later but a quick word on insects - I don't like them, don't care about them being killed as part of my vegetable production, though I do eat organic and would prefer if the insects could be neutered instead of killed.

 

[Origins]

Physical pain is only one form of suffering.

I will never understand you vegetarians.

 

[bobthebuilder]

everyone has concentrated on 1) lack of meat in my diet and 2) things in my diet that shouldn't be there. Is there anything I'm really missing? My protein seems ok (recover well enough from my weekly strength/oly lifting, run most days), calories are keeping my BW steady, but what about the micronutrients? Any obvious vitamin/mineral deficiencies?