vegan muscle building??

[ENTROPY]

Personally, I am in no hurry to overload my system with additional estrogens.

Soy was not originally used as a food by the Japanese, but as a Fertilizer.

There are NUMEROUS studies performed which illustrate the harmful effects of soy Protein.

Reproductive effects, infertility, thyroid disease or liver disease due to dietary intake of isoflavones had been observed for several animals including cheetah, quail, mice, rats, sturgeon and sheep.

The fact that soy retards testicular growth in babies should be of grave concern, given that the testes are responsible for testosterone production....Further implications are obvious. Goitre and hypothyroidism were reported in infants fed soybean diets until the early 1960's.

Recent reports indicate that thyroid disorders may be attributable to feeding soy-based infant formulas. Further, a study on 37 adults showed that diffuse goitre and hypothyroidism appeared in half of the subjects after consuming 30 g per day of pickled roasted soybeans for three months. These findings are consistent with the recently proposed mechanism by which soy isoflavones affect thyroid hormone synthesis.

Madmick, I don

 

[ENTROPY]

Soy is Still Bad Protein
by Glen Neilson

We first published an article about how soy protein is estrogenic, can lower Testosterone counts, and can even kill testicular cells in January of 2000. We then published new research on the matter in February of 2001. But you know something? The national media still won't touch the story. You can pick up the "Food" section of practically any local newspaper and see glowing reviews of the healthy attributes of soy protein, complete with yummy, Testosterone-lowering recipes.

Likewise, the other weightlifting and bodybuilding mags still tout its benefits, and a week doesn't go by that we don't get a letter from some irate soy fan who ends up questioning our parentage.

Given all that, we think that the topic deserves to be visited again and again until every man, woman, and child knows the truth. Hence this new article on soy. Oh, and make sure you read the letter that follows the article. It was written by two of the Food and Drug Administration's soy experts who attempted to stop FDA approval of soy.

There's a lot of talk today about soy. Turn on the news and its soy, read a diet book and you'll find soy, go to your local gym and a personal trainer will recommend soy. What is it about soy that has captivated this nation? Well for starters it has many health benefits backed up by good science, it's inexpensive, it has a good track record in Asia, and the government has allowed a seal of approval to be stamped on food items that contain 6.25 grams of soy protein.

Sounds like soy is a "can't miss" product, but is it? In this article we'll uncover the darker side of supposedly innocent soy and show you why you might not choose to include it in your otherwise healthy diet.

Many papers have exhorted the benefits of soy, but as the saying goes "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" fits soy better than anything else you might imagine.

Science has shown soy, more importantly its phyto-estrogen components, namely genistein, has the ability to attach to estrogen receptor sites and through transcription, act as female hormones such as estradiol. This, in some cases, can have benefits so it's not strange that soy would receive some well-deserved attention. The problem with this attention is that individuals who have no need of soy, and even some to which soy could be hazardous, have started using it. Science is now beginning to see what this "benign" protein can do, though.

This review will cover the negative effects that soy protein may have on fetal development of both males and females, hormonal balance in males of a pre-mature and mature age, and efforts of weight training individuals trying to increase fat-free muscle mass. Studies will be included of human and non-human species, both immature and mature in age. Only abstracts and full-length articles from peer reviewed journals will be referenced in this paper.


Literature

Both abstracts and journals were found through the PubMed database and in the local university library. Limits were set on searches such as "human only," "male," "female," "abstract only," and others. Key words used included "soy," "soy protein," "genistein," as well as "Testosterone production," "effects on Testosterone," and others. Finally, studies or points in favor of soy were not included, as countless papers have been written on its positive effects.


Findings

The largest concern scientists have about soy are its effects on sexual development of infants consuming soy-based formula. The data is startling, yet most concerns have fallen on deaf ears.

One study showed that when manufacturer-suggested amounts of soy formula are fed to infants, the infants ingest a daily dose of approximately 3 mg of total isoflavones (i.e. genistein and daidzein) per kg of body weight, which is maintained at a fairly constant level between 0 and 4 months of age.(3) Supplementing the diet of 4-month old infants with a single daily serving of soy-based cereal can increase their isoflavone intake by over 25%, depending on the brand chosen.

This rate of isoflavone intake is much greater than that shown to alter reproductive hormones in adult humans. The available evidence suggests that infants can digest and absorb dietary phytoestrogens in active forms and neonates are generally more susceptible than adults to perturbations of the sex-steroid milieu.

Another study assessed the effect of administering neonatal animals genistein in the amount of 4 mg per kg per day from days 2-18 of life.(1) Administration of genistein significantly retarded most measures of pubertal spermatogenesis. Plasma FSH levels in the treatment groups changed in parallel to the spermatogenic changes (reduced when pubertal spermatogenesis retarded, increased when pubertal spermatoenesis advanced).

By day 25, the changes in FSH levels largely persisted. In adulthood, the animals that were fed a soy-free diet in infancy and on, had significantly larger testes than controls fed a soy-containing diet. Of the animals that had neonatal treatment with genistein, a minority did not mate or were infertile.

In concluding this article, the authors stated "the presence or absence of soy or genistein in the diet has significant short-term (pubertal spermatogenesis) and long-term (body weight, testis size, FSH levels, and possibly mating) effects on males."

The ugliness continues. The developing fetus is uniquely sensitive to perturbation with estrogenic chemicals. The carcinogenic effect of prenatal exposure to diethylstilbestrol (DES) is the classic example. The carcinogenic potential of genistein, a naturally occurring plant estrogen in soy, has been shown in mice treated neonatally. In a study reported in the journal, Cancer Research, the incidence of uterine adenocarcinoma in 18-month-old mice was 35% for genistein and 31% for DES (diethylstilbestrol).(6)

This data suggests that genistein is carcinogenic if exposure occurs during critical periods of differentiation. The author admonished: "Thus, the use of soy-based infant formulas in the absence of medical necessity and the marketing of soy products designed to appeal to children should be closely examined."

Finally, as far as soy and its effects on infants, hypothyroidism has been shown in infants receiving soy formula.(2)

The next major concern is genistein's estrogenic and anti-androgenic effects on adult male animals and humans. This effect was shown clearly in a study on adult male reproductive tracts.(8) In intact adult male mice, genistein (2.5 mg per kg of body weight per day for only 9 days) reduced testicular and serum Testosterone concentrations and pituitary LH-content. These results suggest that genistein

 

[ENTROPY]

Soy...kills testicular cells


SOY, HOMOSEXUALITY, AND SEXUAL IDENTITY DISORDER

"THE DEBATE"

Are the effects of the use of soy in our food industry causing humans to
have sexual problems to include sexual identity disorder, homosexuality,
sexual dysfunctions and physical deformities to the human reproductive
system? testosterone level continue to fall in men, yet young girls are
going into puberty as young as 6 to 8 years old. Boys seem to be feminized,
while girls are being super sexed. why is it that the governments and their
agencies, corporate food producers, and pharmaceutical companies ignoring
the data? Is there an agenda? What agenda would that be? Is it all about
money? Control? Or population control?


Soy: The Poison Seed
By: William Wong N.D., Ph.D., and Member World Sports Medicine Hall of Fame

This piece will be short and very much to the point. As Americas largest
cash crop soy is being touted as having a myriad of health benefits. Far
from! Soy is poison, period! All paid for opinion to the contrary.

What's bad about soy?

Contains Isoflavones (Genistein and Daidzein). In soy the isoflavones are
built in insecticides. If they kill bugs are they good for humans?

Isoflavones are estrogen like substances which have the same effect as the
bodies estrogen. Cancer comes from having too much estrogen. Irritability
and mood swings, fat gain from the waist down, fibrocystic breast disease
uterine fibromas are all associated with estrogen dominance. Instead of
helping prevent the bad effects of environmental or natural estrogen
dominance soy isoflavones are now known to increase the bad effect of
estradiol and estrone the two major bad guys of the estrogen family.
(1,2,3).

Kills testicular tissue. In men it permanently reduces testicular function
and lowers Lutinizing Hormone production. LH is what signals your testicles
to work. This increases the probability of estrogen dominance in men with
its hair loss, swollen and cancerous prostates. (4,5). Male children fed soy
formulas and soy products may not ever get to like girls. Dorris Rapp MD,
the worlds leading pediatric allergist, asserts that environmental and food
estrogens are responsible for the increase in male homosexuality and the
worldwide reduction in male fertility. (6).

Isoflavones decrease thyroid hormone production. This can stunt children's
growth and make the rest of us tired and fat. (7,8,9).

Female children fed the estrogens in soy formula and products hit puberty
very very early sometimes as young as age 6 to 8! (10).

Pregnant women eating soy products may effect the sexual differentiation of
their children. Studies show malformations of the reproductive tract or
offspring born with both male and female sexual organs. (11).

Isoflavones decrease GOOD cholesterol (HDL). (12,13).

Soy contains Phytin, which takes essential minerals such as iron, zinc,
magnesium etc. out of the body before they can be absorbed. Also soy
contains Trypsin inhibitors block this vital anti cancer enzyme, anti
fibrosis enzyme. (14).

A 7000 man 30 year epidemiological study done in Hawaii shows soy is
connected with a higher rate of Vascular Dementia (Alzheimer's disease).
(15,16).

Any opinions to contradict the facts noted above have been paid for by the
Agribusiness giants Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland. Once public
knowledge of their manipulation of public opinion and of the FDA becomes
widely known, expect monster class action lawsuits against these folks.
They'll deserve it in spades!

Be well and God bless,

Dr. William Wong

References:

1. Casanova, M., et al.; Developmental effects of dietary phytoestrogens
in Sprague -Dawley rats and interactions of genistein and daidzein with rat
estrogen receptors alpha and beta in vitro. Toxicol Sci 1999, Oct.; 51 (2):
236-44.[/size]
2. Santell, L., et al.: Dietary genistein exerts estrogenic effects upon
the uterus, mammary gland and the hypothalamic / pituitary axis in rats. J.
Nutr 1997 Feb.;127 (2): 263-9.
3. Harrison, R.M., et al.; Effect of genistein on steroid hormone
production in the pregnant rhesus monkey. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1999 Oct.;
222(1): 78-84.
4. Nagata, C., et al.; Inverse association of soy product intake with
serum androgen and estrogen in Japanese men. Nut Cancer 2000; 36(1): 14-8.
5. Zhong, et al.; Effects of dietary supplement of soy protein isolate
and low fat diet on prostate cancer. FASEB J 2000; 14(4): a531.11.
6. Rapp, Dorris J., Is This Your Child's World. Bantam Books 1996. Page
501.
7. Divi, R. L., Chang, H.C. and Doerge, D.R.; Identification,
characterization and mechanisms of anti-thyroid activity of isoflavones from
soybeans. Biochem Pharmacol 54:1087-1096, 1997.
8. Fort, P., Moses, N., Fasano, M. Goldberg, T. and Lifshitz, F.; Breast
and soy formula feedings in early infancy and the prevalence of autoimmune
disease in children. J Am Coll Nutr 9:164-165, 1990.
9. Setchell, K. D. R., Zimmer-Nechemias, L., Cai, J. and Heubi, J.E.;
Exposure of infants to phytoestrogens from soy based infant formula. Lancet
350:23-27, 1997.
10. Irvine, C.H.G., Fitzpatrick, M.G. and Alexander, S.L.; Phytoestrogens
in soy based infant foods: Concentrations, daily intake and possible
biological effects. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 217:247-253, 1998.
11. Levy, J.R., Faber, F.A., Ayyash, L. and Hughes, C.L.; The effect of
prenatal exposure to phytoestrogens genistein on sexual differentiation in
rats. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 208:60-66, 1995.
12. Ashton, E., Ball, M.; Effects of soy as tofu vs. meat on lipoprotein
concentrations. Eur J Clin Nutr 200 Jan; 54(1):14-9.
13. Madani, S., et al.: Dietary protein level and origin (casein and
highly purified soybean protein)
affect hepatic storage, plasma lipid transport, and antioxidative
defense status in the rat. Nutrition 2000 May;16(5):368-375.
14. Leiner, I.; The Intraperiotoneal toxicity of concentrations of the
soybean trypsin inhibitor. J Biol Chem 193:183 (1951).
15. White, L., Petrovitch, H., Ross, G.W. and Masaki, K.H.: Association of
mid life consumption of tofu with late life cognitive impairment and
dementia: The Honolulu-Asia Anti Aging Study, The Neurobiol of Aging 17
(suppl. 4):S121, 1996a.
16. White, L, Petrovitch, H., Ross, G.W., Masaki, K.H., Abbot, R.D., Teng,
E.L., Rodriguez, B.L., Blanchette, P.L., Havlik, R.J., Wergowske, G., Chiu,
D., Foley, D.J., Murdaugh, C. and Curb, J.D.; Prevalence of dementia in
older Japanese-American men in Hawaii. JAMA 276:955-960, 1996b
17.

 

[ENTROPY]

Is soy healthy?
Soy is not the health food that you think it is.
From tofu and tacos to baby formula and burgers, soy products have swept the nation as a healthy source of protein, with a reputation for being all natural and good for you. New studies have however raised questions over whether the ingredients in soy might increase the risk of breast cancer in some women, affect brain function in men and lead to hidden developmental ab-normalities in infants.

The core of their concerns rests with the chemical makeup of soy: in addition to all the nutrients and protein, soy contains a natural chemical that mimics estrogen, the female hormone. Some studies in animals show that this chemical can alter sexual development. And in fact, 2 glasses of soy milk/day, over the course of one month, contain enough of the chemical to change the timing of a woman

 

[ENTROPY]

Go to the following link for multiple articles:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

Introduction:
Confused About Soy?

High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc.

Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children.

Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic disorders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth.

Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women.

Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer.

In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease.

Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body's requirement for B12.

Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D.

Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein.

Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines.

Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and additional amounts are added to many soy foods.

Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys.

 

[SlappyMacGee]

Soy causes homosexuality? Are you fucking kidding me? I enjoyed and learned a lot from the articles, but saying soy may cause homosexuality is just fucking nonsense! I don't care how many references the excerpt may have when it posits something as rediculous as the fact that soy turns you gay.

 

[PariahCarey]

Entropy needs a hug Slappy...and it really bothers him that he can't admit it. But he's looking for a real man...

 

[Sean S]

Soy causes homosexuality? Are you fucking kidding me? I enjoyed and learned a lot from the articles, but saying soy may cause homosexuality is just fucking nonsense! I don't care how many references the excerpt may have when it posits something as rediculous as the fact that soy turns you gay.

Kind of have to agree with that.

"the worlds leading pediatric allergist, asserts that environmental and food
estrogens are responsible for the increase in male homosexuality and the
worldwide reduction in male fertility."

This doesn't take into account that homosexuality is more noticed now and is more talked about in society. "Coming out" in today's society is a bit more accepted and therefore you have more people doing so. By having more people doing so, it gives the illusion of an increase. Beyond that, there are way more factors involved in homosexuality then just males becoming more femanine.

 

[Sean S]

Entropy needs a hug Slappy...and it really bothers him that he can't admit it. But he's looking for a real man...

Nice way to show immaturity in a possibly interesting discussion.

 

[Bubble Boy]

Soy also killed JFK from the grassy knoll.

For a different take on Soy, read "The Okinawa Plan", a 25 year study on the diet of the healthiest people on the planet earth (the Okinawains).

Soy eating Okinawan males actually have higher Testosterone levels than their non-soy eating American counterparts.

Also, it is my understanding that Soy acts as a selective estogen receptor modulator, meaning that it is essentially a selective estrogen. Estrogens have to connect with a cell receptor to work. The phytoestrogens in soy allow it's estrogen to promote growth in beneficial areas (bones) and inhibit it in potentially damaging areas like the endometrium and (a concern for men) the breasts.

I think moderation is the key here. Just like with everything else. But if you have a few soy products here and there, the benfits probably outweigh the negatives.

 

[ENTROPY]

Soy causes homosexuality? Are you fucking kidding me? I enjoyed and learned a lot from the articles, but saying soy may cause homosexuality is just fucking nonsense! I don't care how many references the excerpt may have when it posits something as rediculous as the fact that soy turns you gay.

I DISAGREE with the specific implication of the writer

 

[Sean S]

Even though I do not hold the writers opionion outrightly, the research consistently shows that soy kills testicular tissue, lowers Lutinizing Hormone production, reduces testicular function and increases the probability of estrogen dominance in men. As such, feminization clearly occurs, which in many circles (not only the writers) would be viewed as gay.

Fair enough, but unfortunately such logical jumps (Assumption 1: All gay people are feminine. Assumption 2: Soy causes femine traits. Conclusion: Soy causes homosexuality) does detract from any other "logical" conclusions made by the author. However, I never read that as your opinion.

 

[ENTROPY]

Soy also killed JFK from the grassy knoll.

Petty entertainment for mediocre minds!

Also, it is my understanding that Soy acts as a selective estogen receptor modulator, meaning that it is essentially a selective estrogen. Estrogens have to connect with a cell receptor to work. The phytoestrogens in soy allow it's estrogen to promote growth in beneficial areas (bones) and inhibit it in potentially damaging areas like the endometrium and (a concern for men) the breasts.

Your understanding is both incomplete and highly selective given that you

 

[ENTROPY]

Fair enough, but unfortunately such logical jumps (Assumption 1: All gay people are feminine. Assumption 2: Soy causes femine traits. Conclusion: Soy causes homosexuality) does detract from any other "logical" conclusions made by the author. However, I never read that as your opinion.

Assumption 2 is more than an assumption.

Since female bodybuilders become more masculine as a result of male hormones, then estradiol and estrogens will have an equivelant effect in males.

 

[Sean S]

Assumption 2 is more than an assumption.

Since female bodybuilders become more masculine as a result of male hormones, then estradiol and estrogens will have an equivelant effect in males.

Ok bad word choice.

 

[ENTROPY]

Fair enough...

 

[HULKAMANIA]

It's pretty funny when ENTROPY gets going.

 

[Urban]

wait... so soy is bad for you? That was great Entropy! I really appreciate you taking the time to post thos studies and thought out replies on the subject. Thanks a lot.

I do have a question though: I myself limit my soy consumption as much as possible, but it seems that much of the research is primarily focused around infants and developing childeren. Clearly there is a greater risk for them, but are the risks to me (an adult male) even worth worrying about? I don't mean to say it won't do anything to me, but is it like mercury in fish? a lot of concern over very little threat? I personally don't mind cutting the soy out of my diet and have no intention of supplementing with it any time soon. I'm just looking for clarification.

 

[Madmick]

However, I never read that as your opinion.

Nor did I.

Thanks for the info, Entropy, I've got some reading to do.

 

[Madmick]

I do have a question though: I myself limit my soy consumption as much as possible, but it seems that much of the research is primarily focused around infants and developing childeren. Clearly there is a greater risk for them, but are the risks to me (an adult male) even worth worrying about? I don't mean to say it won't do anything to me, but is it like mercury in fish? a lot of concern over very little threat? I personally don't mind cutting the soy out of my diet and have no intention of supplementing with it any time soon. I'm just looking for clarification.

Yeah, that was my initial concern. But Entropy addresses that above, indirectly, when he commented on the implications. For example, even though administering steroids to a teenage male has serious devlopmental and health implications that aren't a major concern of a grown adult male, it remains that endogenous testosterone production shuts down with any kind of hormone replacement therapy.

But, as for the infants, I realized I didn't answer this last night, Entropy. I would consider a soy milk formula substituted for a regular milk formula as "massive" intake of soy, since, I'm presuming, the infants' diets consisted entirely or almost entirely of that. I certainly won't be consuming that much.

But then I skimmed the study involving the 30g soy bean administration to adult males. So it looks like there's some more good info, there, Urban, but I have yet to read it closely.