Usyk beats Fury

[aries]

Agreed, tho the question remains how much did switching to Sugar Hill truly switch his style up vs the Ben Jones/Peter Fury point fighting brand? The Fury that fought Wallin looked like the Fury from Wilder 1, vs the Fury from 2 and 3 who appeared a much different fighter. Is that style just a function of dealing with Wilder, putting him on the rear foot, or has he truly adopted this Kronk style?

I also am eagerly awaiting the Whyte Wallin fight. It may be that Wallin is much, much better than people realize but not getting his due respect. The guy has lost just one time, to Fury, had a very decorated amateur career, is a tricky south paw is larger than Lennox Lewis. That Wallin win could end up being one of the best win on Fury's whole record, much like Conor McGregor decisioned a young Holloway and people used that against him, but no one knew how quality it really was until far later.

I think Fury is versatile, he has many tools in his toolbox. That's part of what makes him so hard to beat, that and his ring IQ and size. I think he can switch between the Kronk style and his older more pure boxer style. What we may see is a hybrid because Usyk can move so well, so Fury won't be able to walk him down as easily as he did with Wilder, he'll have to chase him and cut off the ring but Fury will want to use his size to muscle the smaller man around and sap some of his prestigious stamina. It's a fascinating match up.

Wallin may well indeed be a lot better than anyone realised. I'll admit when he got named as Fury's opponent I knew nothing about him. I think Whyte is in for a tough fight and may hit a banana skin as he closes in on the WBC shot he's been chasing for so long.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Fury has 7 inches of reach, about 5 inches of height and 50 pounds of weight on Usyk. When a fighter is that much taller you need to factor the height as well, Usyk isn't just dealing with the linear disadvantage, he has to make up for the hypotenuse of both of those size difficiencies.

People aren't giving enough credit to how much of a challenge that presents.

Usyk has very solid technique, but he will have to be crafty as hell to be on the better side of those exchanges while punching up 6 inches and having to come through a sizable amount of space where Tyson can hit him but he can't reach Tyson.

And Tyson boxes and moves pretty well when he shows up in peak form. I would HOPE that he is smart enough to realize that his big bully approach, which worked well for Wilder, is not the ideal approach and he comes in in the 260 range and ready to BOX like he did with Klitschko.

Usyk winning, in my humble opinion, requires Tyson making some pretty sizable mistakes. Showing up out of shape. Not using his reach advantage, letting Usyk dictate the range.

I hope we get to see it soon. And I hope both men come in at at their best.

Tyson just won an ugly fight while Usyk just won a very technical fight. Be wary of assuming that narrative will play out like that if they face each other.

Fury historically has struggled more with shorter, smaller opponents. He does much better generally against taller, bigger fighters with his style.

 

[burningspear]

Two guys who've never been bested, always a treat. It wouldnt surprise me either way.

 

[jx820]

there’s a rematch clause, nothing more. If usyk beats Joshua and fury beats his mandatory then there’s nothing stopping them fighting

Until another bout agreement is signed between Usyk and AJ we don't know what is or isn't preventing them from fighting.

Also, does Fury beat his mandatory? Probably, he's beaten everyone else, but who knows. If he doesn't he's in a rematch.

 

[totoro mick b]

Tyson is 26% heavier than Usyk.

Ratio wise that is the same as a 160 pound middleweight fighting a 200 pound cruiser weight.

That's GGG fighting Usyk in 2018.

126% bodyweight
+ 8 inches reach
+5 inches height

What counts more, the size of the dog in the fight, or the size of the fight in the dog? A 60 pounds pitbull vs a 180 pounds St Bernard?....a 40 pounds Wolverine vs a 120 pounds Wolf?

Primo Carnera (6-5½, 264½)
- Lost vs Max Baer (he outweighed Baer by 59½ pounds)

Nikolai Valuev (7-foot, 310¾)
- Lost vs David Haye (outweighed Haye by 97.9 pounds)

Jess Willard (6-6½, 245)
- Lost vs Jack Dempsey (outweighted by 58 pounds)

Wladimir Klitchko (6-6, 240¼)
- Lost 5 times in total but the smallest opponent he lost to was Lamon Brewster (6-2, 226) , Brewster was outweighted by 17 pounds.

Anthony Joshua (6-6, 250)
- Lost vs Andy Ruiz. A smaller but heavier opponent..(6-2, 268). And lost to former cruiser Oleksandr Usyk (6-3, 221) , Usyk was outweighted by 19 pounds

Tyson Fury (6-9, 277)
Unbeaten. (Knocked down by former cruiserweight Steve Cunningham, who was outweighted by 44 pounds and also knocked down several times by Wilder in their first and third fight)

Deontay Wilder (6-7, 238)
- Lost to Tyson Fury (outweighted by 39 pounds)

Mike White (6-10, 275)
- Lost vs Michael Moorer (outweighted by 50 pounds)...

Ultimately, size matters...but it matters a lot more if the opponent also happens to be skilled. That's the real difference. Of course, anything can happen regardless of skills.. But we're not talking about certain outcomes. It's impossible to know for sure in boxing. Lennox Lewis lost to Rahman (koed by lesser skilled opponent), Vitali lost to Byrd...(because of a torn rotator cuff).. Anything can happen, a flash KO, freak accident, judge corruption etc...we're only talking about averages and stats.

What can Fury do against Usyk? We know he'll never be able to outbox him. (He was outboxed by Cunningham). We also know that Usyk has by far the best footwork and stamina in the HW division. We know that he has faced superior competition in the past....

Usyk can also get koed out cold by Joshua in the rematch. Or lose by cut stoppage, you never know.. But if Usyk vs Fury happens, the most probable outcome imo would be Usyk winning by UD. Or Fury also winning by UD Or maybe TKO...Fury can put aside his ego, exploit his size as much as possible, it wouldn't be pretty to watch but leaning on Usyk in the clinch would be a safe solution. Or keeping Usyk at bay behind his jab/reach.

The only problem is that Usyk isn't just a great former cruiserweight like Steve Cunningham. Worst of all, his footwork is reminiscent of both Pacquiao and Lomachenko. Fury May very well be the most talented big man we've ever seen. He's the most skilled giant i've ever seen. (A giant who understands the importance of footwork and head movement)... But Usyk is ridiculously skilled. Not just for a guy his size, but P4P...

I hope the fight happens. But i don't think Fury is in a hurry to fight this guy. He'll wait and see if Joshua can win the rematch. Speaking of which....Joshua is the one who consistantly took the biggest risks in his career. You can't that away from him.

 

[PUO3]

Both have work to do before we can talk too seriously about this match-up. Having said that, here's a recent photo of them together. As expected Fury dwarfs him.

Man I really want to see this. While Wilder’s speed is really impressive (and deceiving), he cant box for shit so putting it to use practically is a bit of a joke. And well, he doesnt have footwork to speak of. It will be very interesting to see how Fury fairs against someone who moves better and faster than he does.

Also makes me wonder if Fury will put an emphasis on slimming down or if he wants to stay heavy as hell to try and wear on Usyk?

 

[jeff7b9]

What counts more, the size of the dog in the fight, or the size of the fight in the dog? A 60 pounds pitbull vs a 180 pounds St Bernard?....a 40 pounds Wolverine vs a 120 pounds Wolf?

Primo Carnera (6-5½, 264½)
- Lost vs Max Baer (he outweighed Baer by 59½ pounds)

Nikolai Valuev (7-foot, 310¾)
- Lost vs David Haye (outweighed Haye by 97.9 pounds)

Jess Willard (6-6½, 245)
- Lost vs Jack Dempsey (outweighted by 58 pounds)

Wladimir Klitchko (6-6, 240¼)
- Lost 5 times in total but the smallest opponent he lost to was Lamon Brewster (6-2, 226) , Brewster was outweighted by 17 pounds.

Anthony Joshua (6-6, 250)
- Lost vs Andy Ruiz. A smaller but heavier opponent..(6-2, 268). And lost to former cruiser Oleksandr Usyk (6-3, 221) , Usyk was outweighted by 19 pounds

Tyson Fury (6-9, 277)
Unbeaten. (Knocked down by former cruiserweight Steve Cunningham, who was outweighted by 44 pounds and also knocked down several times by Wilder in their first and third fight)

Deontay Wilder (6-7, 238)
- Lost to Tyson Fury (outweighted by 39 pounds)

Mike White (6-10, 275)
- Lost vs Michael Moorer (outweighted by 50 pounds)...

Ultimately, size matters...but it matters a lot more if the opponent also happens to be skilled. That's the real difference. Of course, anything can happen regardless of skills.. But we're not talking about certain outcomes. It's impossible to know for sure in boxing. Lennox Lewis lost to Rahman (koed by lesser skilled opponent), Vitali lost to Byrd...(because of a torn rotator cuff).. Anything can happen, a flash KO, freak accident, judge corruption etc...we're only talking about averages and stats.

What can Fury do against Usyk? We know he'll never be able to outbox him. (He was outboxed by Cunningham). We also know that Usyk has by far the best footwork and stamina in the HW division. We know that he has faced superior competition in the past....

Usyk can also get koed out cold by Joshua in the rematch. Or lose by cut stoppage, you never know.. But if Usyk vs Fury happens, the most probable outcome imo would be Usyk winning by UD. Or Fury also winning by UD Or maybe TKO...Fury can put aside his ego, exploit his size as much as possible, it wouldn't be pretty to watch but leaning on Usyk in the clinch would be a safe solution. Or keeping Usyk at bay behind his jab/reach.

The only problem is that Usyk isn't just a great former cruiserweight like Steve Cunningham. Worst of all, his footwork is reminiscent of both Pacquiao and Lomachenko. Fury May very well be the most talented big man we've ever seen. He's the most skilled giant i've ever seen. (A giant who understands the importance of footwork and head movement)... But Usyk is ridiculously skilled. Not just for a guy his size, but P4P...

I hope the fight happens. But i don't think Fury is in a hurry to fight this guy. He'll wait and see if Joshua can win the rematch. Speaking of which....Joshua is the one who consistantly took the biggest risks in his career. You can't that away from him.

I don't disagree with anything you say here.

As far as dog size... BOTH.
The big mean dog beats the smaller mean dog. So...

Is Usyk skilled ENOUGH to cover the size gap?

God bless him if he is.
That is a mountain of a size difference to overcome.

Usually the way it goes it that the big guy is very slow and awkward and gets by on size and the smaller guy is much much more technical or just lands the big punch, maybe due to speed.

But Fury is pretty technical for a big fella. At his best (which is <260lbs imo) he moves quite well and has good punches and exceptional head movement. Not an easy nut to crack.

Usyk could very well be the better fighter and still lose.

I don't think we disagree on much, save maybe slightly on perspective.

And yes, props to AJ. He has taken the bigger risks and has the deepest resume of the top group of HWs, no argument there. And he has been financially rewarded for doing so, good for him.

also genuinely hope the fight happens soon. And intrigued by the potential AJ vs Usyk fight in the meantime if that is how it goes, which is what I expect.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Man I really want to see this. While Wilder’s speed is really impressive (and deceiving), he cant box for shit so putting it to use practically is a bit of a joke. And well, he doesnt have footwork to speak of. It will be very interesting to see how Fury fairs against someone who moves better and faster than he does.

Also makes me wonder if Fury will put an emphasis on slimming down or if he wants to stay heavy as hell to try and wear on Usyk?

I want to see it for the same reasons you do. Based on Fury's recent comments though he has no interest in fighting Usyk. I don't want to hear about him not being a big enough name. Usyk holds three of the four titles and is undefeated. He's also an Olympic champion. They're the clear #1 & #2 heavyweights in the world currently. So, should they get past their next respective opponents, if Fury refuses to fight Usyk then it's an obvious duck in my book. An undisputed fight would make them both a fortune so he can't complain about the money not being there. If he's willing to step into the ring with guys like Otto Wallin, a literal nobody at the time, then there's no excuse.

As for what Fury's target weight will be in a potential Usyk clash, I don't know. Like you said it could be that he slims down to try and keep up with Usyk. Or, he just might take the exact opposite approach and come in very heavy to try and crush him. I think he'll probably slim down considerably since he's already got a ridiculous size and weight advantage over him.