US Army Combatives

[dualityzme]

Former military here, did some training in the Army's Combatives program. I remember my platoon Sergeant saying is was based off Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Can anyone confirm or deny or just have additional info? I'd also be curious to know what the Marine's hand to hand combat training is like.
Thanks in advance.

 

[ARONAbeetFEDOR]

I'm not sure. But what I do know is that a buddy of mine came home for leave and told me he was a BJJ black belt after the military training he received.

Mfw:

 

[Romano338]

I know the Gracie trained the army at one time (saw it in the recent documentary on the Gracies)
Wouldn't be surprised if it was highly based on BJJ

 

[SenseiSeagalMMA]

Former military here, did some training in the Army's Combatives program. I remember my platoon Sergeant saying is was based off Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Can anyone confirm or deny or just have additional info? I'd also be curious to know what the Marine's hand to hand combat training is like.
Thanks in advance.

Marine Corps Martial Arts Program, aka MCMAP

Lots of NCOs push getting the black belt to make Staff. It's not a very good program, it's basically Krav Maga. Black belts are given out like happy meals though. It's based on hours of training recorded by an instructor.

Lots of Marines taking advantage of this by buddying up with a MCMAP Instructor who will sign off for their buddies.

 

[dualityzme]

Marine Corps Martial Arts Program, aka MCMAP

Lots of NCOs push getting the black belt to make Staff. It's not a very good program, it's basically Krav Maga. Black belts are given out like happy meals though. It's based on hours of training recorded by an instructor.

Lots of Marines taking advantage of this by buddying up with a MCMAP Instructor who will sign off for their buddies.

Well that is disheartening. I wonder if they are getting mangled at ameteur BJJ tourneys.

 

[Nataku]

Former military here, did some training in the Army's Combatives program. I remember my platoon Sergeant saying is was based off Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Can anyone confirm or deny or just have additional info? I'd also be curious to know what the Marine's hand to hand combat training is like.
Thanks in advance.

Yes, it's based on wrestling, BJJ and boxing primarily, if you read your FM you'd know that.

I spent 3 years as a level 1/2 instructor, after spending time in an actual BJJ gym I'd estimate myself at an average blue belt level. Your average soldier who's only been through level 1/2 and trains maybe once a week or less will likely be less capable than your average white belt.

Level 3-4 incorporate a lot more weapons retention and combat survival techniques, as well as striking.

I don't have any experience with the MCMAP itself, but I've rolled with other branches while deployed and there was no noticeable difference between your run of the mill marines and soldiers. Just physically trained guys with a crash course in grappling to give them an advantage over the untrained.

 

[SenseiSeagalMMA]

Well that is disheartening. I wonder if they are getting mangled at ameteur BJJ tourneys.

I doubt a lot of MCMAP participants are doing anything outside of the Corps. The program is basically about disarming weapons.

There is a Marine Corps Martial Arts team but I am not very knowledgeable about it.

 

[tasticles]

Yes, it's based on wrestling, BJJ and boxing primarily, if you read your FM you'd know that.

I spent 3 years as a level 1/2 instructor, after spending time in an actual BJJ gym I'd estimate myself at an average blue belt level. Your average soldier who's only been through level 1/2 and trains maybe once a week or less will likely be less capable than your average white belt.

Level 3-4 incorporate a lot more weapons retention and combat survival techniques, as well as striking.

I don't have any experience with the MCMAP itself, but I've rolled with other branches while deployed and there was no noticeable difference between your run of the mill marines and soldiers. Just physically trained guys with a crash course in grappling to give them an advantage over the untrained.

From my experience in the Army they have incorporated a lot of muay thai and Judo as well. I don't know if this is a recent or addition or if it's always been this way. I have mixed feelings about the program myself because it is mostly mma to me. Some of it is good for actual combat but a lot I would only use in a ring or cage. I tapped a level 3 guy with ease and I have nothing more than a Judo background from many years ago. I am not some Olympic level judoka either.

 

[dualityzme]

Yes, it's based on wrestling, BJJ and boxing primarily, if you read your FM you'd know that.

I spent 3 years as a level 1/2 instructor, after spending time in an actual BJJ gym I'd estimate myself at an average blue belt level. Your average soldier who's only been through level 1/2 and trains maybe once a week or less will likely be less capable than your average white belt.

Level 3-4 incorporate a lot more weapons retention and combat survival techniques, as well as striking.

I don't have any experience with the MCMAP itself, but I've rolled with other branches while deployed and there was no noticeable difference between your run of the mill marines and soldiers. Just physically trained guys with a crash course in grappling to give them an advantage over the untrained.

Good info, thanks. As for the FM, the only one I ever really read was the Rangers Handbook and some of the literature at SOPC.

 

[BMFOAT67]

I'm not sure. But what I do know is that a buddy of mine came home for leave and told me he was a BJJ black belt after the military training he received.

Mfw:

I've had a few similar situations. Three of them actually just during my last deployment.

I was in the gym and ran across some Army dudes doing some grappling, so I approached them, introduced myself and asked if I could join in. At this point I stressed to them, (and again I'll stress to you) that I am a novice at best. I'm a white belt in BJJ and only have a couple of months of very sporadic training under me belt. The both told me that they were Army combative level three certified (there are four levels I believe). I was really tentative for the first 15 seconds or se during the first roll before realizing that this guy had absolutely no clue what he was doing. Within 5 minutes it was painfully clear that these guys had been pushed through some completely bullshit course, given a certification and told that they were killers. It was honestly shocking. I'm Air Force and had never trained with any other branches on the mats and was expecting a lot more. After a few rolls these guys were floored at how good they thought I was, and I couldn't bring myself to tell them that I'm actually not very good at all, it was just that they are terrible.

Then they told me that I needed to meet a buddy of there's who was a Marine and a BJJ Brown belt. Like an idiot, I got my hopes up that this guy would actually know what he was doing and that session went even worse than the one I just described.

I really wanna stress that I am a WHITE BELT, and at the time I knew no BJJ other than what I had seen on Youtube and practiced with some buddies. So the next time somebody tells you about how badass they are due to there branches combative course, that it with a grain of salt.

 

[BMFOAT67]

Yes, it's based on wrestling, BJJ and boxing primarily, if you read your FM you'd know that.

I spent 3 years as a level 1/2 instructor, after spending time in an actual BJJ gym I'd estimate myself at an average blue belt level. Your average soldier who's only been through level 1/2 and trains maybe once a week or less will likely be less capable than your average white belt.

Level 3-4 incorporate a lot more weapons retention and combat survival techniques, as well as striking.

I don't have any experience with the MCMAP itself, but I've rolled with other branches while deployed and there was no noticeable difference between your run of the mill marines and soldiers. Just physically trained guys with a crash course in grappling to give them an advantage over the untrained.

Wish I would have read your post before publishing my novel. lol. That's a pretty perfect description of the skill level I saw, the only problem I had was the mentality these guys had before we rolled, to talk to them, you'd think they were ten feet tall and bullet proof and the skills just didn't match up to the attitude. It honestly concerned me, that these guys were so confident in the very limited training they had received.

 

[Zach The Maniac]

I've had a few similar situations. Three of them actually just during my last deployment.

I was in the gym and ran across some Army dudes doing some grappling, so I approached them, introduced myself and asked if I could join in. At this point I stressed to them, (and again I'll stress to you) that I am a novice at best. I'm a white belt in BJJ and only have a couple of months of very sporadic training under me belt. The both told me that they were Army combative level three certified (there are four levels I believe). I was really tentative for the first 15 seconds or se during the first roll before realizing that this guy had absolutely no clue what he was doing. Within 5 minutes it was painfully clear that these guys had been pushed through some completely bullshit course, given a certification and told that they were killers. It was honestly shocking. I'm Air Force and had never trained with any other branches on the mats and was expecting a lot more. After a few rolls these guys were floored at how good they thought I was, and I couldn't bring myself to tell them that I'm actually not very good at all, it was just that they are terrible.

Then they told me that I needed to meet a buddy of there's who was a Marine and a BJJ Brown belt. Like an idiot, I got my hopes up that this guy would actually know what he was doing and that session went even worse than the one I just described.

I really wanna stress that I am a WHITE BELT, and at the time I knew no BJJ other than what I had seen on Youtube and practiced with some buddies. So the next time somebody tells you about how badass they are due to there branches combative course, that it with a grain of salt.

had a very similar experience at my gym, i had been training for around 6 months and one day an Army guy comes in talking about being a level three and stuff so i thought i was gonna get destroyed but the guy was horrible i made him tap 6 times in a 5 minute period... even Got him with a Gogoplata

 

[Nataku]

From my experience in the Army they have incorporated a lot of muay thai and Judo as well. I don't know if this is a recent or addition or if it's always been this way. I have mixed feelings about the program myself because it is mostly mma to me. Some of it is good for actual combat but a lot I would only use in a ring or cage. I tapped a level 3 guy with ease and I have nothing more than a Judo background from many years ago. I am not some Olympic level judoka either.

After seeing the people who graduated from my instuctor's course, I'm just going to say that there are a lot of people who THINK they know what they're doing because of combatives, but not a whole lot who actually do.

 

[Saenchai]

From my experience in the Army they have incorporated a lot of muay thai and Judo as well. I don't know if this is a recent or addition or if it's always been this way. I have mixed feelings about the program myself because it is mostly mma to me. Some of it is good for actual combat but a lot I would only use in a ring or cage. I tapped a level 3 guy with ease and I have nothing more than a Judo background from many years ago. I am not some Olympic level judoka either.

The judo been there ever since Teddy Roosevelt got his ass whooped and decided to train in it, get a black belt and made a dojo in the white house!

 

[TheSubmissionCh]

Army Combatives sucks. Absolute shit programme. I have my own stories, but I will save them. Lots of instructors believe they are 'experts' and will be not only COMPLETELY wrong with their answers to questions but be disrespectful/dismissive when you are asking them a question. Pointless.

The Marine programme, I know nothing about. I know a but more about one of their competition teams. The one(s) based in CA were always on the grappling comp circuit. Lead by a legitimate BJJ Brown Belt; cool cat. All of them would be unnecessarily rough/brutal (think wrestler with no submission skills that you have gone against [on their day one]), some were laughably arrogant/cocky. Baret Yoshida absolutely bloodied and grapplefucked one of the cockiest ones once and it made me smile.

Anyway, they were decent grapplers at the beginner/intermediate levels. Some of the more serious ones did advanced/expert -- you can tell they trained BJJ as well, at an academy. They would be getting paid for travel/et. cetera when they went to competitions on weekends because it was considered work. So badass.

In closing, their team was a fairly cool assignment if one were so lucky to get it. Their coach/instructor was legit. I never lost to any of them because of their inclination to grossly over-commit (backtaker's dream). Good wrestling though. (Pull guard) - E

Postscript. Army combatives ABSOLUTELY sucks.

 

[The HoneyBadger**]

Former military here, did some training in the Army's Combatives program. I remember my platoon Sergeant saying is was based off Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
Can anyone confirm or deny or just have additional info? I'd also be curious to know what the Marine's hand to hand combat training is like.
Thanks in advance.

It is based of Jiu-jitsu, BJJ, Karate, Krav Maga, Judo, and Sambo.

I also know that most of these guys aren't very good. They don't get a whole lot of hand-to-hand training. I've taken out MCMAP "Black belts" in a matter of seconds. That being said I'm pretty sure Tim Kennedy would snap me in half.

 

[MandirigmaFit]

What do you people expect from the people in the military. It's not like the course is 90 min/day 3 days a week. It's a few days, once, up to 4 courses. They are soldier/marine first. Not grappling practitioner lol.

 

[35andOver]

We have a few Marines and a number of police officers at my gym and it's fascinating to watch the disappointment in their faces when they first come in. In a couple cases, some of these fellows came in fully expecting to dominate only to get handled quite easily.

For the Marines, it makes sense that they don't emphasize the unarmed, one on one combat training too much.....if you find yourself in that situation as a Marine, so many things have gone wrong at that point it's crazy.

But the cops.....man they gotta get more training for those guys.

 

[The HoneyBadger**]

What do you people expect from the people in the military. It's not like the course is 90 min/day 3 days a week. It's a few days, once, up to 4 courses. They are soldier/marine first. Not grappling practitioner lol.

The problem is they know just enough to get themselves hurt.

They are going to end up in a fight and try something they've practiced once or twice and get themselves into a horrible position and have their faces pounded into hamburger meat.

 

[The Apostle]

We have a few Marines and a number of police officers at my gym and it's fascinating to watch the disappointment in their faces when they first come in. In a couple cases, some of these fellows came in fully expecting to dominate only to get handled quite easily.

For the Marines, it makes sense that they don't emphasize the unarmed, one on one combat training too much.....if you find yourself in that situation as a Marine, so many things have gone wrong at that point it's crazy.

But the cops.....man they gotta get more training for those guys.

+1 for when the cops come in for the 1st few times.