Urgency when you guard is passed?

[ozyabbas]

For me it depends on what type of side control they have and what type of pass they do. Some passes lead to a lot more control and less of a scramble than others.

If I can't regain the half guard or go for a single I turtle instead. Its a dangerous strategy against really good guys but it beats being pinned on your back. You will find more people doing this in clubs where people compete as they don't want to give up points for a guard pass.

I am lazy and don't scramble enough and don't act with a sense of urgency. The people who do act with a sense of urgency and go for a single generally have more success getting out in my opinion.

 

[Fight To Win]

I usually just lock down a half-guard and look for sweeps.

 

[Irenaeus]

j/k

I have a strong feeling that something just went over my head.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I am the same way. This is my mentality and I think it might work for you too TS. I am very hard to sub when on top and I have very good subs from top half. Therefore, I would rather be in on a single than on my back in full guard. IMO, you are more likely to get points AND dominant position from a single than flat on your back. When someone breaks my guard and makes a strong move for a pass, I say fuck recomping and start hunting for singles like a killer. YOU WILL GET ARMBARRED at first if you are going against good guys. However, after a few weeks of going all in on this strategy, it worked for me and I dont see why it wouldnt for anyone else.

this might be because you are a wrestler... Im usually looking for that too, although I dont like to stand up and wrestle my way to the top (might have to do because our tatami its pretty small and I dont want to fall in someones head, but when I do, I get sumigaeshied or guillotined...

 

[pesadissimo]

For those of you who panic under side control, i would suggest looking into Javier Vazquez's SES (side escape series) videos. I attended a seminar on it and it is extremely useful stuff!

 

[Mooner]

I scramble and get the half guard and look to sweep or go back to full guard because my game consists of triangle, arm lock, and omoplata.

 

[Modern Warrior1]

My sub defense from bottom is pretty good, but I still don't hang out as he passes guard. As soon as he's passed I'm bumping, shrimping, and hooking. If he defeats this initial burst, then I move to a survival position and try and use what he gives me.

 

[Linthec]

When your guard is being passed you want to go ahead and try to start in the best position you can: on your side, controlling their hip, guarding your head/neck, your opponent way too low and loose to block the shrimp. My goal is to get a strong position where I can recompose if they don't move. So they have to move, either by turning the hips out, running to north-south or the other side, jumping on an armbar they don't have, etc. And I'm not going to let them make this transition tightly because I'm going to be tight with good defensive posture and a strong frame. Either I get out immediately because they don't react, or I get out when they are forced to react poorly because they have no option but to move into a position they can't control. That said, I try not give them knee-on-belly as an option because your way out of that one is a shitty half-guard.

In summary, I don't let them get a side mount they like, so it forces a scramble or transition that my opponent isn't really set up to make.

 

[Jbeefnet1771]

This

i immediately go for a single leg, you don't lose points for turtling and your best chance to start/win a scramble is immediately after the pass. If you let them consolidate, you're going to get cross faced and raped when you go for the same single.

However, you're going to end up with a lot guys on your back when you first started trying this

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

In my weight class (super heavy), it is just way better to be under turtle than under side control. I'm not even worried so much about turtling to avoid the pass points, but simply to get out from under enormous people.

I'll look, briefly, for a common knee to elbow, but if it isn't readily available my "sense of urgency" is to get out from under the person and come to my knees.

I'm pretty good (now) at escapes from under turtle, having a good granby roll and some other crafty little escapes from there. I'm much more comfortable getting out of back control, even when they have hooks in place. I can do it fairly consistently and quickly. Much faster and with less energy spent than languishing under side control or north/south.

4 points isn't that big of a deal if I leave myself with time to work.

 

[thegreenblender]

In my weight class (super heavy), it is just way better to be under turtle than under side control. I'm not even worried so much about turtling to avoid the pass points, but simply to get out from under enormous people.

I'll look, briefly, for a common knee to elbow, but if it isn't readily available my "sense of urgency" is to get out from under the person and come to my knees.

I'm pretty good (now) at escapes from under turtle, having a good granby roll and some other crafty little escapes from there. I'm much more comfortable getting out of back control, even when they have hooks in place. I can do it fairly consistently and quickly. Much faster and with less energy spent than languishing under side control or north/south.

4 points isn't that big of a deal if I leave myself with time to work.

I think this is true most all the time, really. You have a structure in turtle whereas you are just a pancake under side control, that alone makes the difference I would think.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I am the same way. This is my mentality and I think it might work for you too TS. I am very hard to sub when on top and I have very good subs from top half. Therefore, I would rather be in on a single than on my back in full guard. IMO, you are more likely to get points AND dominant position from a single than flat on your back. When someone breaks my guard and makes a strong move for a pass, I say fuck recomping and start hunting for singles like a killer. YOU WILL GET ARMBARRED at first if you are going against good guys. However, after a few weeks of going all in on this strategy, it worked for me and I dont see why it wouldnt for anyone else.

I'm not a very good wrestler, but I find this works great for me. I do recompose a lot and invert to get back to open guard, but if I'm getting killed on a knee slide then switching to a single is my go to.

I think a lot of defending the pass in the later stages is knowing when to give up on retaining full guard and switching to something else. If you wait too long and try desperately to cling to guard, when you do get passed you're screwed. If you realize earlier in the process that you're not going to be able to retain full guard, switching to a single leg or half guard (or even turtle) before your opponent has a chance to solidify position can save your life. You have to take the chance to transition to an inferior position from which you still have chances rather than hold onto your optimal guard until it's too late and you don't have anything. Like most of grappling, developing a sense of timing and transitions is what makes this work against better guys.

 

[Dedication]

It sort of depends, if they are similar weight to me (~140) then I feel comfortable letting them into side-control because I know that I am able to recover guard or half-guard, slip out the back-door and get on top, or reverse side-control going either direction using one of multiple possibilities. If they are heavier or a solid belt-level + above me I either switch to a single or let them pass because I can usually shrimp and recover guard, reversing is much more difficult.

You just have to learn your own game I suppose. It's hard to describe but if I feel like the reversal will happen, then I'd much rather let them pass, get the reversal, and end up in side-control for free. Or else I can work my standard return to guard, half, arm-drag from half to the back escapes. Or I can pull the single and scramble. I don't think about it, I just let my body do it. (Sometimes I do what my opponent wants me to do, when they are really good at imposing their will, but we won't talk about THAT lol )

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

One thing that helped me from getting my back taken all the time, was when my wrestling coach told me to stop grabbing at the thigh and start grabbing the ankle with an overhand grip. That way if they try to square up, they reap their own knee. It keeps them from cutting around until you can step your leg over theirs and hit the standard jiujitsu style single.

 

[kuristus]

One thing that helped me from getting my back taken all the time, was when my wrestling coach told me to stop grabbing at the thigh and start grabbing the ankle with an overhand grip. That way if they try to square up, they reap their own knee. It keeps them from cutting around until you can step your leg over theirs and hit the standard jiujitsu style single.

I'm trying to picture what this single looks like. When you control the ankle, are you pulling it to the outside or the inside? Or are you even pulling?

 

[Calibur]

I'm trying to picture what this single looks like. When you control the ankle, are you pulling it to the outside or the inside? Or are you even pulling?

Cup the heel and the opponent can't turn. If he tries to spin he will torque on his own knee

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

And if he spins hard, the torque will make him topple himself.

 

[kuristus]

And if he spins hard, the torque will make him topple himself.

So are you cupping it with your inside arm (between his legs) or outside arm?

 

[shunyata]

I can escape side control and high mounts without much trouble unless there is a big weight or skill difference against me so I'm generally not bothered by my guard being passed by an even weighted and belted opponent.

Sub defense is also pretty good from side and mount so I don't generally feel threatened unless I lose my back.

Like others have said if I can scramble for leg or get a turtle before the guard is passed I'll happily take them, but I don't really feel much urgency if I don't come up with either.


There are guys who have focused heavily on their guard and pass game where I can't break them from top full guard but after they sweep me and pass I can easily sweep them into side control and move on from there.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

So are you cupping it with your inside arm (between his legs) or outside arm?

Outside hand, near side is usually framing to keep me from getting whizzered to death