Urgency when you guard is passed?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by platfox, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    I'm no Ryron Gracie nor does my style even come close to his. I feel like for my skill level, my guard is pretty hard to pass. My guard pass game and a tough a guard to pass are the only two things that I think I am comfortable with for my belt level.

    I rarely get subbed when I'm on top or when I have a guard. That leaves just when an opponent has passed my guard (I'm not including having my back taken in this conversation because there should be a sense of urgency for everyone, especially in the gi in that position).

    Do you guys relax and wait for openings to escape/reverse or do you actively start working? I feel like if I hang around and wait for openings, I'm giving my opponent a chance to set submissions up. However, when I act too quickly I sometimes leave a limb to be attacked or expose a deep lapel grip for a choke.

    Techniques, concepts, theories, or philosophy from after getting your guard passed would all be appreciated.
     
  2. Funkoar

    Funkoar Green Belt

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    Is that you, Chulo?
     
  3. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Sorry, was this thread already done? I don't open all the threads like I used to as of late.

    And, no I'm not Chulo.
     
  4. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    I immediately go for a single leg, you don't lose points for turtling and your best chance to start/win a scramble is immediately after the pass. If you let them consolidate, you're going to get cross faced and raped when you go for the same single.

    However, you're going to end up with a lot guys on your back when you first started trying this
     
  5. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    There lies the problem, I hate exposing the back. I do however do like you just said and sometimes use the turtle to avoid being put inside control. Sometimes I can turtle, invert and regain guard but sometimes I get the back taken. I guess either go with your advice, and practice my scrambles and/or a strong single from turtle or have to work out of being cross faced and flat on my back.

    Oh btw..Funkoar, Ok, I found the Chulo thread. He said he's a white belt with a good guard. I said I have a good guard for my belt level. I think there's a big difference.
     
  6. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    One thing I noticed was I fought too hard to never get my guard passed. Once I know I am beaten meaning I know they are gonna pass. Instead of struggling the last amount of energy, I just conserved energy for a quick scramble instead of wasting my last breath to stop the inevitable. Sorry it is not the great solution. But more of an saving energy outlook to the problem. So once you know you are gonna get passed, set up your favourite grips for an easier transition to a reversal.
     
  7. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Interesting.

    I never really panic when my back is taken. I only see it as a loss in points.
     
  8. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Thanks, thats actually the kind of stuff I wanted to hear from people. Not necessarily the techniques you use to escape but the strategy you use when your guard is breaking down.

    Now how about the feeling of being in danger of getting subbed once your guard is passed. I have to say, once my guard is passed my sub defense is very weak. Perhaps thats why I feel the urgency to get the heck out of bottom side! Some guys can sit in bottom side for days and not feel threatened. Once my opponent gets to north south, I feel even more vulnerable.
     
  9. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    I am the same way. This is my mentality and I think it might work for you too TS. I am very hard to sub when on top and I have very good subs from top half. Therefore, I would rather be in on a single than on my back in full guard. IMO, you are more likely to get points AND dominant position from a single than flat on your back. When someone breaks my guard and makes a strong move for a pass, I say fuck recomping and start hunting for singles like a killer. YOU WILL GET ARMBARRED at first if you are going against good guys. However, after a few weeks of going all in on this strategy, it worked for me and I dont see why it wouldnt for anyone else.
     
  10. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Is it the hand fighting and preventing collar choke grips you're comfortable with or your ability to escape the position? Do you hang out there a while or do you have "go to" escapes that you can rely on to get guys off your back? Sorry for the million questions.
     
  11. platfox

    platfox Silver Belt

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    Wrestlers and good no-gi guys do use the single from turtle on me with some success. I'm not an explosive young grappler though, so I don't think it will ever be a go-to move for me. I do practice it though. I've been practicing the single from turtle where I try to to get at least to a 45 degree angle (or 90 if possible) and knee tap the far knee to push them over.
     
  12. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Hand fighting mostly. That and I control my own collar and chill .That kills most attacking options until the opponent smartened up and uses his feet to break my grips on my collars. I anticipate it since his hook is gone and than I get out.

    I think my thing is I play lots of turtle so not only am I comfortable defending my neck, but the turtle position has me and my opponent transitioning with hooks in and out until I throw them over or turn into top half.

    BJJ logic says I've lost a lot of points while gaining none, but my logic says I've gotten dominant position and used less energy than I would escaping mount or side control.
     
  13. 196osh

    196osh Orange Belt

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    I use this strategy a lot turtling to either rolling to guard or popping up for a single.

    It might not work for people who arn't very good wrestlers.
     
  14. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    I let lighter guys on purpose pass my guard for the exact reasons. To work on my grips in the plan to reverse or sweep. Against heavier guys that don't play nice then I just rely on boring closed guard game . Please note that I teach so losing face is not a good look. But I believe tapping is learning. In case of a lazy top side control or north side, I just don't panicked. Just wait for an opening to scramble or reverse. Please note I don't compete. If you want to do side control or north side for five minutes roll. I would just think you wasted precious rolling time. But yeah, you won. Props to him
     
  15. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    There is a lot to controlling someone in a pin when the opponent is similar skill and weight.

    Being able to control someone for five minutes is just as important as being able to break their arm in 5 seconds. Maybe more important depending on your goal.

    Not a waste at all.
     
  16. pistol3

    pistol3 Orange Belt

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    I struggle until enough time has passed for my partner to secure the points. After that I tend to take a breather and regroup before I start looking to escape.
     
  17. Irenaeus

    Irenaeus Black Belt

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    I'm way to complacent when my guard is passed, especially considering that I'm not very good at escaping side control.

    I'm going to go for the single and turning the corner like a motherfucker for a while and see how it works out.
     
  18. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Not really. You are supposed to attack or advance your position every twenty seconds or is it thirty seconds! When I think advance means get the the sub or mount etc...Mount and back control are the two positions were you can legally stalled. So you don't attack so I can't escape. Snooze fest for the rest of the round. You won. Congrats.to be honest, I hate the rules as well. I watched the two best guys battled it out for money under ten minutes and. They still relied on ref decision.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  19. thegreenblender

    thegreenblender Brown Belt

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    [​IMG]

    j/k
     
  20. TheHereticJay

    TheHereticJay I scoff at your belt rankings

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    My sense of urgency starts once I've felt if you have a good KOB. Side, half, mount, back,etc... I'm not all that panicky. But if I feel you have good pressure and can move well in KOB...I'm getting myself going and quick. I'm not saying that I don't feel threatened in other positions, but I don't feel like I'm in immediate danger the way I do when under a good KOB. Another spot is when they're sprawled out on top of me with my head in the mat. It's a spot I see quick subs snapped on, so I want out of there ASAP.
     

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